The socialization of men and women

I discussed in previous articles about how women tend to socialize by validating each others opinions. That’s why they have such a herd mentality and why they are easily influenced to move in a similar direction as a group.

However, men tend to socialize on an entirely different wavelength. What men say and do to their friends is equivalent to mock insulting each other, ribbing each other, teasing each other, and giving each other sh*t for everything and anything.

Thus, we have these two axioms:

  1. The tendency of women’s socialization is to agree with each other and validate each other.
  2. The tendency of men’s socialization is to be critical, challenging, ribbing, teasing, and mock insulting of each other.

This is masculine behavior. We are men, and we are not afraid to challenge each other to be better men through some good natured ball busting. When you see something that looks like weakness, insecurity, or misbehavior in your friend, you will ream your friend out for it. That is how one becomes a man in this world; he is able to overcome challenges set before him, especially spurred on by other men.

Women are attracted to this masculine behavior, and it’s one of the reasons why they want into men exclusive spaces. As much as being validated makes a woman feel good temporarily, a woman being challenged to stay on her toes by teasing, mock insulting, ribbing, and him giving her sh*t for her words and actions is much more “fun” and “interesting.”

You can tell who the “men” are from the “nice guys” in that the men are not afraid to display this type of behavior to women. “Nice guys” are boring and uninteresting because they haven’t been taught that they should display this behavior not just to their male friends but also to females. This is why when men hide their masculinity from women like this they become boring and uninteresting.

It’s not so much that a man is a “jerk” or “asshole” in the sense of the words. It’s that a man is able to show a woman his masculinity without holding back. Nice guys are men who are able to show their masculinity to other men but hide their masculinity from women.

As I explained in Understanding Attraction, men tend to instinctively know that they should rise to another man’s handshake with a firm squeeze. Likewise, a man should show a woman that he can squeeze her handshake or that he can squeeze back against her firm handshake. He can criticize her when he sees that she is on the wrong path, he can call her out on behavior, he can disagree with her, he isn’t there to agree with her views, etc. A man is supposed to be able to overcome challenges from other men, which is all the more reason why he shouldn’t back down from challenges from women.

This is the tangible aspect of men that is attractive to women. To women this behavior is flirting and attractive because of it’s inherent masculinity, and you will be able to help her grow as a woman in the Lord if used correctly.

When Christian nice guys put a woman on a pedestal, they are placing her above criticism, challenges, ribbing, teasing, and mock insulting. Thus, the Christian nice guys is unable to show that woman his masculine side, and she becomes bored and uninterested by him because he falls into the trap of being like other women. Additionally, when a man places a Christian woman above criticism, he is unable to effectively accomplish the goal of bringing both himself and his girlfriend/wife closer to God.

This is the change in mindset that Christian men must have. We know almost instinctively as men that our challenge to other men will drive them on to be better men, but we must also learn that our challenge to women will also drive them on to be better women.

Men don’t become better men when they are validated nor do women become better women when they are validated. They stagnate and become complacent. The biggest example is feminism and the immense validation of women that it provides. We see the fruits of feminism in women with overall gains in unhappiness, obesity, poor self esteem, entitlement, decreased femininity, etc. Only negative fruits have come out of feminism.

Jesus said to judge by their fruits, and feminism comes up wanting.

Masculinity drives men to be better men and women to be better women. This is what civilization is built on, and why “patriarchy” builds civilization. Therefore, don’t be afraid as a man to be critical, challenging, ribbing, teasing, and mock insulting to women just like you would be to other men.

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31 Responses to The socialization of men and women

  1. Sis says:

    Great attraction behavior, needs some slight modification once married 🙂

  2. @ Sis

    I’m sure many of the unmarrieds who read this blog would like to know… how would you say that changes in marriage in your own words?

  3. donalgraeme says:

    Nice insight here DS.

  4. Sis says:

    all I know is there’s only so much criticism and challenging I can take before I burst into tears. There has to be some signs of love from him, in my language….words of affirmation, gentleness, acts of service, etc. to keep us connected.
    I remember when we were dating, I wouldn’t allow him to make fun of me because I was so sick of men making fun of me, my brothers did it constantly, I just wanted to find a guy who didn’t do that. It was a deal breaker for me. Now he makes fun of me all the time but he avoids my soft spots and goes for stuff that doesn’t bother me and I can laugh with him.

  5. @ Sis

    That’s a good thing to note.

    The more feminine a woman is — typically if she has more brothers who did rib her all the time or was raised in a traditional sex roles society — the less overt masculinity a man will have to display to make her feel attracted to him. She may often think he is arrogant or a jerk if he does too much of it.

  6. donalgraeme says:

    @ DS

    That is important to keep in mind as it demonstrates the error in applying straight up Game teaching to a traditional, feminine Christian woman. Much of Game’s active instructions were designed with masculine, non-traditional women as the baseline. That kind of approach is likely as not to go too far and poison the relationship.

  7. Elspeth says:

    This:

    It’s not so much that a man is a “jerk” or “asshole” in the sense of the words. It’s that a man is able to show a woman his masculinity without holding back.

    And this:

    He can criticize her when he sees that she is on the wrong path, he can call her out on behavior, he can disagree with her, he isn’t there to agree with her views, etc. A man is supposed to be able to overcome challenges from other men, which is all the more reason why he shouldn’t back down from challenges from women.

    Thank you. I had a guy at Dalrock’s characterize my description of my husband as “ignorant, thoughtless, inconsiderate, inattentive, etc” when nothing could be farther from the truth.

    It is utterly impossible it seems for some men to separate the real love from the concept of pedestalization. If you’re not actively pursuing her good feelings as an expression of love, then you’re an jerk who doesn’t love her and she is a woman of low virtue for responding positively to a man who refuses to hold back his masculinity from her.

    On the contrary, I elaborated:

    “What an interesting interpretation of what I have said. It speaks to how sick and twisted our view of love and marriage has become.

    When my husband expresses his devotion to me, it’s genuine, not a subversive attempt to get me to be something or get me to do something to gratify his desires.

    So when he takes me out to dinner of buys me a gift or compliments me, it’s because he wants to show his love, not because he is trying to buy access to my “services” for the night. Knowing he has that regardless of any performance means his expressions of love are real, and I have never wondered that thing I have heard countless other women wonder: “Is he just doing this because he wants sex?”

    Also he can be honest, brutally so, and know that there will be no price to pay for it later. I can be just as honest, by the way because his ego isn’t so fragile that he has to prove anything and he knows he has my respect. How, please tell is this in any way inferior to whatever it is you are thinking marriage is supposed to be?

    When we make major decision, my input is respected, but he’s not going to make what he thinks is the wrong decision in order to spare my feelings.

    In other words, there is no quid pro quo happening here.”

    I am very heartened to read your post. Whomever you marry will be a fortunate young woman because you have bothered to explore true masculinity rather than studying how to pretend to be a man in order to do the impossible; get a rebellious woman to submit.

  8. @ Elspeth

    As much as some of the men at Dalrock say there’s no alternative, most of them don’t want an alternative. Many of the Christians are interested more in getting women to be attracted to them than pursuing God’s word. You can tell that from the way they talk.

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  14. deti says:

    “We are men, and we are not afraid to challenge each other to be better men through some good natured ball busting.”

    Yes, ladies, and note this well: Men are allowed to bust each other’s balls. You, however, are NOT allowed to bust a man’s balls. And especially, you are NOT allowed to bust your date’s balls or your boyfriend’s balls or your suitor’s balls.

    And under no circumstances are you EVER to bust your husband’s balls, at any time, in public or in private. EVER. THere is NEVER, EVER, any justification whatsoever for a wife to bust her husband’s balls. NEVER.

    A man who busts his friend’s balls is doing his friend a service.

    A woman who busts a man’s balls is just being a b*tch.

  15. deti says:

    There are a lot of things that go into how much teasing a girl can put up with.

    1. Did she have any brothers or male cousins she was close to.

    2. Is she conventionally physically attractive (most girls have SOME)

    3. How much time does she spend around men in general either growing up or in school or at work.

    The issue really is how much experience she has with men and being, living and working around men.

    Girls who grew up around a lot of men can tolerate a lot more teasing and challenging.

    Girls who are more physically attractive can tolerate more teasing and challenging, simply because they’re accustomed to interacting with all sorts of men: jerks, players, assholes, good men, nice guys, losers, intelligent men, dumb men, interesting men, and dull men.

    Girls who are less physically attractive tend to have less experience with men in general and are far more sensitive about teasing and challenging.

    The key is to see what reactions you’re getting through teasing and challenging. You can’t neg and tease a 4 the same way you would a 9. What you say to a 9 would have her giggling; but would have the 4 running out of the room in tears.

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  25. CHero says:

    How do you know what kind of challenges to respond to and which ones to ignore (other than things that are sinful or manipulative in nature)?

    How do you know when too much teasing is enough?

  26. @ CHero

    As a man: you decide.

    If you want to know what to look for then look at a woman’s actions. If she’s constantly engaging and having fun then it’s obviously a go.

    If she’s pissed for days then you probably crossed a “line.”

    HOWEVER, crossing a “line” is not a big deal. Women pout and get angry all of the time and usually over things that are not sins. In cases like these, the trick is to re-engage them on other topics which will draw their emotional state out of said funk.

    In general, if you feel you crossed a “line” the best thing to do is not apologize. Rather, it’s best to draw out a conversation about why they may have reacted the way they did. Usually it’s because of past experiences which turned out poorly which are unrelated to you and your actual comments. Your comment only triggered some memories of said experience which is why they reacted the way they did. Thus, situations can be turned around to actually help them grow emotionally, personally, and spiritually.

    Words to keep in mind: It’s only a big deal if you make it a big deal.

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