Framework for offense and defense

There’s a lot of posts I want to write, but first I have to write an overarching post on how men interact with women. I’ve been holding off on this because it’s a complex topic to explain, but explaining this will make everything much easier in the long run.

Understanding masculinity in relation to women

First, there are two main categories.

In Understanding Attraction, the analogy I used for attraction is the handshake. You squeeze her hand, or she squeezes your hand and you squeeze back.

  1. Offensive — Squeezing her hand is the offensive way (pun intended) to build attraction, and
  2. Defensive — Her squeezing your hand and you squeezing back is the defensive way to build attraction. These are always fitness tests.

These are the two overarching themes and you can see how all interactions with women fall into these two categories. Now, within these categories there are also two distinctions to be made in each.

  • Offensive (self)
  • Offensive (her)
  • Defensive (self)
  • Defensive (her)

Offensive

  • (self) You tease her to respect you — This is where you make a comment that ultimately demands respect, usually veiled behind teasing or joking. One example that I used in Role Reversal is the concept of reverse fitness testing by saying to her with a grin “did you miss me?” or “you never listen to me.”
  • (her) You teasingly correct her — This is where you make a comment on the indirect truth. For a Christian man this means speaking the truth in love. I discussed this thoroughly in this series of posts: The socialization of men and womenThe selfish and unselfish socialization of menMasculinity is the truth, and Masculinity is the truth Part 2. If you see that her behavior is out of line then you call her on it. The concept of “negs” also falls under here. Knocking someone down for no reason at all isn’t godly, but if a man or woman has inflated pride or is self righteous it is good to reveal the truth through your words. For instance, see all of Jesus’ conversations with the Pharisees.

Defensive (e.g. Fitness tests)

  • (self) She does not respect you — This is where a woman abuses Christian nice guys for their time or accuses you of something. For example, accusations may involve “You look funny/ridiculous”, “Can you do X, Y, Z for me?”, “You’re not the jealous type are you?” etc[1]. Basically, if her behavior is out of line then call her on it.
  • (her) She wants you to respect her — This is where a woman demands you respect her or wants you to validate her. For instance, “Do I look good in this dress?” Did I do a good job or what?” “Did you miss me?”, “You never listen to me”, “You never let me do X while other girlfriends can do it”, etc.[1]

[1] Used some examples from Heartiste’s compendium of shit tests.

As you can see, I’ve discussed examples from all of these categories in various articles before. However, having discussed them before is not enough because Christians are to speak and act in a manner worthy of Christ. Thus, I want to go through each of these categories and examine the framework of masculinity and what the Scriptures say on these particular situations.

  • Offensive: You tease her to respect you — For husbands this is obvious (Eph 5:33). Christian men and women are called to have brotherly love (philadelphia, Rom 12:10) as well as charity (agapao) for one another (John 13:34-35; 1 John 4:7-21), though Christian women are not called to submit to men who are not their husbands. This is an easy separator for Christian men who are pursuing a wife as women that would more willingly submit to you in a courtship/engagement phase are going to be respectful of you. Don’t pursue a woman who is not interested in you.
  • Offensive: You teasingly correct her —  For husbands again this is obvious (Eph 5:25-31). 2 Timothy 3:16 — all Scripture is God breathed for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness. Likewise, in Matt 18, Luke 17, 1 Cor 5:2, and 2 Thes 3:6 if a brother is in sin or error point it out to him. Utilizing teasing and flirting to spur women on towards righteousness and away from sin is a godly thing for any Christian man to do.
  • Defensive: She does not respect you (or others) — This nebulous as Christian women are not called to respect Christian men that aren’t their husbands. However, often these types of comments denote impropriety on the side of the man (“you’re not jealous are you?”) or are [harshly] judgmental without concern for correction (“why did you do that?”, “why would you wear something like that?”). This violates the Scripture’s clear teachings about edification and peace Rom 8:29, Rom 15,14, 1 Thes 5:11,14, Heb 3:13, 10:24-25, 1 Pet 4:10. See general body responsibilities here for more Scriptures on this. Likewise, Christian men can be abused for their time as I have discussed before because there are situations where men should not be involved with women who are not their wives because it is the woman’s husband’s or woman’s significant other’s responsibility. Additionally, Christian women are not to be teaching men (1 Tim 2:12), though the older women are called to teach the younger (Titus 2:3-5). Men are to teach men (Prov 27:17, Titus 2:6-8).
  • Defensive: She wants you to respect her — The Scriptures state to love your wives (Eph 25-31), be considerate (1 Peter 3:7), do not be harsh (Col 3:19), etc. but not respect wives. Indeed, as we have seen repeatedly respecting wives is not what they need to be loved.

If you notice any Scripture verses that apply to these categories that I missed (and I’m sure there’s many) then make sure to leave them in the comments. Similarly, if you notice anything off theologically about what I’ve said I would appreciate correction.

The sanitization of game?

If you see what I am doing as santizing game you’re missing the mark. Game may have shown you what masculinity can look like albeit in an evil direction, but it is God who created masculinity. That’s why I glorify God for helping me to better understand masculinity, even if my sources are the Scriptures and a “worldly thing” such as game.

1 Corinthians 1:27

but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,

I honor God not game. Instead of seeing game as something all Christian men to learn, I would rather see all men embrace masculinity (as opposed to femininity) in a godly manner. To see the masculinity that God created and grow into it. Getting caught up in defending game makes you miss sight of God and His creation.

John 15:19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, because of this the world hates you.

Romans 12:2 And do not be conformed to this [a]world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may [b]prove what the will of God is, that which is good and [c]acceptable and perfect.

1 John 2:15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. 17 The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.

The main thing is fourfold in the overarching development of masculinity as it relates to women:

  1. In teasing her to respect you this helps you to filter the women who are not suitable to be your helpmeet. Those that don’t respect you will most likely have trouble obeying God’s command to submit to you in marriage. While you can be a respected man, it is ultimately a woman’s choice to submit to your headship in marriage. That’s why this is a good filter for women who you are interested in.
  2. In you correct her, the goal is to spur women on towards rigtheousness with your flirting and teasing. Not towards temptation.
  3. When she does not have respect for you, this is also case where a woman can be off track and need correction as well. If a woman is accusative then throw it right back at her and call her on it. If she’s being excessively judgmental then call her on it. If she’s being rude then call her on it. Silly answers deflect the intended questions, but reversing to have them take a look at their own behavior is a Biblical thing to do.
  4. With she wants you to respect her, she is not following Biblical principles and can be often fishing for compliments for her own pride or self worth. This is something worth correcting as well.

In most of these instances, one can use the masculine concepts in order to bring glory to God by taking the focus off of your and/or her and refocusing the situation on what God desires. Similarly, using the first tactic to filter for those who would be suitable for you in marriage and eventually as a Biblical command in marriage is a good thing.

If you’re a “pro-gamer” think about your motives here. It’s not about “creating attraction” with women although that’s a nice side effect. It’s about doing what God wants by learning the concepts of how to spur women towards righteousness. It’s about seeing behind the deception of the devil in the relatively “innocuous” behavior of women and to call it out to help them grow into better Christians.

Therefore, have a heart for God, read the Scriptures, pray and meditate on the Word, and go forth and learn to use the masculinity that God created for His purposes. As it says in 1 Timothy 2 “[God] desires all men to be saved and to come to the [c]knowledge of the truth.” Take care that such knowledge will not allow your pride to draw you away from God, but rather direct your steps and others towards Him.

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19 Responses to Framework for offense and defense

  1. Padre35 says:

    DS, that is possibly the best explaination of integrating Game with Faith I’ve ever read. Wish I’d had wrote it, instead, even better you wrote it. It’s not about having tons of cheap sex, not at all, it’s about adding armor to Good men who are Christians.

    It would be hard for anyone to read that and claim “no one told me”

  2. @ Padre

    Thanks.

    I see everything as masculinity and “game” can impart knowledge into that area. But the heart for God is the most important thing, and to walk into godly masculinity the heart needs to direct masculine behavior on a righteous path.

    It’s the difference in perspective of:

    ~Game is the world view, and I integrate Christianity into it.
    ~Christian masculinity is the world view (as God created masculinity in His image), and I see concepts of game that may be applicable toward spurring on others’ relationships toward God.

  3. Padre35 says:

    You know as a dictum, weak men are never attractive in any sense, why be a luke warm servant dislike by everyone?

  4. Joseph of Jackson says:

    @DS

    “Christian masculinity is the world view (as God created masculinity in His image), and I see concepts of game that may be applicable toward spurring on others’ relationships toward God.”

    I think you and I are actually talking about the same thing, it’s just I don’t mind using the word Game as a basis for it.

  5. @DS:

    1 Corinthians 1:27 had been rolling around in my head lately on the topic of “Game”. It’s a great one to always keep in mind.

  6. @JoJ:

    It’s the usurpation instinct. I’ll call it “Making Baskets” if that’s what is required to connect to this generation.

  7. Haha, it just hit me. 2000 years and the terms are still given to us so wonderfully.

    The point is to “build your house” on something. The Game/anti-Game/definition discussion (broader one) pretty much revolves around “what do we call the process?”, when the Foundation is all that matters. It’s sad we had to go to the World to find the blueprints, but we’ve got the Heavenly Planner on our side.

    Build it, brothers! (Why did that come out in a Hulk Hogan voice in my head?)

  8. @ JoJ

    Yes, that’s why I’ve said we agree fundamentally because of the love God with all your heart, soul, mind, strength & love your neighbor as yourself.

    Though I want to take it one step further and not associate good/righteous masculinity with that (game) which many would call unrighteous.

    1 Thes 5:21 But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; 22 abstain from every [m]form [or appearance] (Eidos) of evil.

    G1491 — εἶδος — eidos — i’-dos
    From G1492; a view, that is, form (literally or figuratively): – appearance, fashion, shape, sight.

    Also, the analogy I threw out at J4G’s site is the same one that Donal has used in the past. Previously, if you wanted a Christian man to learn about masculinity you throw him Heartiste’s site. Well, that’s not exactly a good thing because most Christians will either laugh at you and think you’re crazy and still be churchian, or they have a decent sized chance of getting sucked into a hedonistic lifestyle and away from God. That’s why I align myself anti-game overall because the thrust of game is for a specific reason (successful with women/getting laid), but that doesn’t mean I think we can’t learn about masculinity from it.

    I see so many Christians run to the defense of game even over giving glory to God. It’s disgusting.

  9. Joseph of Jackson says:

    @DS

    “Also, the analogy I threw out at J4G’s site is the same one that Donal has used in the past. ”

    I just went and looked at the comment section on that post. You did an awesome job breaking it down for jf12. I’m not sure how well he understood, but this is one of the curses of the internet. I can preach all day, but I can’t take them out into the real world and wing for them. Watching men face their demons and realize they are nothing but shadows is very fulfilling.

  10. Random Angeleno says:

    a slight correction needed:
    there are situations where men should not be involved with women who are not their husbands because it is the husband’s responsibility.

    Shouldn’t this read:
    there are situations where men should not be involved with women who are not their wives because it is the woman’s husband’s responsibility.

    Otherwise a good post; I look forward to your future posts.

  11. Jacob Ian Stalk says:

    DS,

    Another great piece. I’m a little cautious about your use of this phrase:

    “Christian women are not called to respect Christian men that aren’t their husbands

    I don’t think I’d go as far as saying women are not called to respect men, since all Christians are called to respect others regardless of their relationship to them. That’s not to say they are to follow others, or to submit to others, or trust, or listen to, or be taught by, or associate with them, etc etc. But respect for men who are not their husband seems to be God’s will for women, just as it might be for anyone else. Romans 12:10 comes to mind…

    And also this phrase:

    Those [women] that don’t respect you won’t submit to your headship in marriage, and thus won’t be suitable as candidates no matter how much you like them.

    I take the view that wives are to submit to their husbands not because their husbands are men to whom they can submit, but because God commands it (<a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ephesians+5%3A22-33&version=NKJV"Eph 5:22-33, <a href="http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Peter+3%3A1-7&version=NKJV"1 Pet 3:1-7). There is nothing in Scripture to suggest that the personal feelings and demonstrated skills of a potential spouse have anything to do with it. The marriage roles are instituted by God, therefore respect, love, headship and submission are to be the obedient and disciplined response to Him, irrespective of what the spouse does. Also, I think perhaps headship and submission are separate commands to respect and love, which must still be fulfilled in marriage in the absence of the others, and vice-versa. Obviously, all things being present is ideal but the first two are never described as following from the last two in Scripture, or vice-versa, nor are they presented as being mutually inclusive. I suspect that instead, God wants husbands and wives to grow into their respective roles with His and each others help rather than to audition for a potential spouse based on these parameters beforehand.

    Thoughts?

  12. @ JoJ

    Thanks.

    Yeah, I think there’s different niches even within the Christian manosphere. Obviously, something such as what I would purport to be “Christian masculinity” is not going to be able to reach everyone whereas your pro-game Christianity can definitely reach the others that the anti-gamers may not.

    As long as the ultimate goal is God then I don’t really care what people call it.

  13. @ Random Angeleno

    Yup, thanks for the correction.

  14. @ Jacob

    Good catch on those. The wording was not precise. I changed them to:

    “Christian men and women are called to have brotherly love (philadelphia, Rom 12:10) as well as charity (agapao) for one another (John 13:34-35; 1 John 4:7-21), though Christian women are not called to submit to men who are not their husbands. This is an easy separator for Christian men who are pursuing a wife as women that would more willingly submit to you in a courtship/engagement phase are going to be respectful of you. Don’t pursue a woman who is not interested in you.”

    and

    “Those that don’t respect you will most likely have trouble obeying God’s command to submit to you in marriage. While you can be a respected man, it is ultimately a woman’s choice to submit to your headship in marriage. That’s why this is a good filter for women who you are interested in. “

  15. Jacob Ian Stalk says:

    Sorry, I messed up the html tags in my last comment. Not sure how I can fix this.

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