Unity

As many are aware, there may have been things brewing between SSM and Lena, LGR, and others for a while. Matt Forney’s post is a boiling over of that. Free Northerner addresses it peripherally, and again in the context of the manosphere.

This post is directed to all of the Christians embroiled within this affair both those directly involved and those who have brought themselves in on the sides.

Speaking up for the truth.

Who is right or wrong? I don’t know. Does it even matter?

As a Christian, when strife and dissesion breaks out it is very easy to just say “not my problem” and just watch from a distance afar.

I believe this to be incorrect. In fact, there are times when not speaking up for the truth is obviously the wrong thing to do:

Matthew 10 (NASB)

32 “Therefore everyone who [z]confesses Me before men, I will also confess [aa]him before My Father who is in heaven. 33 But whoever [ab]denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

34 “Do not think that I came to [ac]bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. 37 “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who has found his [ad]life will lose it, and he who has lost his [ae]life for My sake will find it.

In fact, I am beginning to think of the mindset of “if this makes life easier for me to just do nothing” is a completely wrong mindset to have. Christians should not be afraid of conflict, especially when speaking the truth.

This is one of the inherent problems with the Christian nice guy so learn it well. Speak up for the Truth.

One easy example of this is that it directly applies to husbands and wives. It’s easy for the husband to let his wife’s nagging go and not confront her about it. It’s easy for the wife to not speak up her opinion about a situation. While that is “easier” in the short term, it leads to long term building up of resentment and overall increase of strife and dissession in a relationship.

Being able to face and overcome conflict is a necessary step of being a Christian.

Unity

The Scriptures speak to unity in many, many, many different places:

1 Corinthians 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

1 Corinthians 12:12-13 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body–whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free–and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

1 Peter 3:8 Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.

2 Chronicles 30:12 Also in Judah the hand of God was on the people to give them unity of mind to carry out what the king and his officials had ordered, following the word of the LORD.

Colossians 3:13-14 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.

Ephesians 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,

Ephesians 4:3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

Ephesians 4:16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

Galatians 3:26-28 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Let me be clear about this.

I am not in the business of promoting the manosphere. I am not in the business of promoting the red pill. I am not in the business of saying who is right or who is wrong in such situations. I am not in the business of trying to promote my own agenda. I am not in the business of fracturing the relationships of Christians.

Rather, I’m in the business of promoting God.

No Christian should be trying to promote their side. Instead, Christians should be promoting what God wants. God wants all Christians to dwell together in unity, love, and Spirit in order to be a witness in the world.

Right now we have a poor witness and lots of disunity. People are being caught up and taking sides. This is sinful.

Direct involvement

This is a clear example of where all of the Christians involved should be apologizing to one another (one), (two), (three) for any wrongs they may have committed.

Even if you were totally in the right, you should forgive the other person:

Matthew 6:14 “For if you forgive others for their transgressions, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Ephesians 4:32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you.

Colossians 3:13 bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.

I find it disconcerting that Christians have such a hard time with this. I understand it’s really hard to forgive someone who you believe has wronged you deeply. But God calls you to do that.

I know because I have struggled with this over the past couple of months and finally come to a place where I can lay aside my pride of being right in favor of doing what is righteous.

Galatians 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: [i]immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, [j]factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Forgive the other person, apologize as necessary, and reconcile to bring unity in the body of Christ. This is what God commands.

Don’t let your pride strangle your heart and keep you in your sin or as the Scriptures state God won’t forgive you. Don’t pay lip service to God’s commands and make yourself a hypocritical Christian.

Matthew 5:23 Therefore if you are presenting your [s]offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your [t]offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your [u]offering.

Tomorrow is Easter. Don’t celebrate the resurrection of Jesus tomorrow without having attempted to reconcile. Don’t make a mockery of what Jesus has done for us.

I don’t believe public apologies are enough. The Scriptures state to go to the person directly and reconcile directly. Choose your words carefully that you don’t offend the other.

The supporters

There are supporters on both sides of this “schism.”

Quite frankly, almost every Christian taking a side is doing the exact opposite of what is righteous in this situation. When you take a side and show support you are showing yourself to be a promoter of dissesion and strife even inadvertently. You are providing judgment on who is “right” and who is “wrong” instead of promoting love and unity.

This is a sin. And those who engage in such sin will not inhereit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: [i]immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, [j]factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

There should be no sides taken.

Instead, there should be promotion of repentance (if any) and reconciliation and forgiveness between the two parties as both sides claim to be Christians. Whatever the dispute it doesn’t matter. Even if someone is right or even is someone is wrong. Don’t promote anyone’s side except God’s.

Matthew 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may [a]be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Therefore [b]you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

This whole situation has only proven that most Christians are not on God’s side on this particular issue. They only care about themselves more than they do about God. They care more about helping their friends more than doing what God wants. They care more about supporting someone instead of calling them to unity, repentance, and reconciliation.

This is simply not what God has called Christians to be. I am deeply grieved by this.

Many of those involved are Christians who are doing a good work in persuading many to eschew feminism and instead seek God and His values. It pains me to see that the divisions here would so easily trip up these Christians.

Conclusions

This is actually an extremely good lesson for the Christian manosphere and related sites. God allows many things to happen. Even bad things among Christians.

Instead of taking sides and promoting sides we should instead be reaching out to one another in an attempt to forgive and reconcile. This includes Christians who are not directly involved with the situation(s) as well in order to provide support and encouragement for the Christians involved to forgive and reconcile.

Pouring more fuel on the fire in order to support your position or your friend’s position does the exact opposite by creating more tension and strife. It’s not about winning an argument. Lay aside the pride and put on humility instead. Understand that, whether you were right or wrong, by arguing you’re hurting other people. By siding you are hurting other people. Being a Christian is not about being right.

We are human, and we sin. The difference is that we are humble enough to accept God’s grace and forgiveness. This allows us to repent and transform our minds and thinking to be like God’s and to desire what God wants:

  • Forgive as God has forgiven you.
  • Reach out to the other side and reconcile as best as possible personally not just publically.
  • Pray to God that He bless your enemies even be they other Christians.
  • Apologize for creating and fostering dissension and strife, even if you think you are right
  • Repent and turn from enmities, strife, […] outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, [and] [j]factions and live in unity.
  • Don’t take a side but rather encourage apologies, repentance, and reconciliation.

Sadly, I am seeing more human concern that godly concern in this situation. When God allows such things to happen, what you choose to do with it is the fruit. Allow God to work in you to have your fruit be good fruit.

As a Christian “bystander” I won’t keep silent on the matter and instead encourage forgiveness, repentance, grace, unity, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility, and self control to all of the Christians involved or commenting on this matter.

I pray that you will do the same.

P.S. Keep in mind that this is the same way you should be thinking as a single Christian looking for a spouse, and as a married Christian. This is one of the easiest ways that the enemy can insert himself into your life and distract you away from what God wants.

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37 Responses to Unity

  1. 3Colonial says:

    How would you incorporate the situation described in Matthew 18:15-17 when the disagreement can’t even be resolved by the entire ‘church’ into this post?

  2. @ 3Colonial

    On the Internet you can only do so much as opposed to in person in the church. This may be my so much.

    I would like to see more solidarity within the Christian blogs promoting reconciliation and forgiveness instead of taking sides.

    Right now, most of the ones I’ve looked at (I haven’t seen all of them) have decided not to bother with the issue or they are taking sides. Based on what I’ve read of the Scriptures as described in the post above that does not seem right.

    However, it is up to those involved to reach out to each other and act in a Christian manner. You can’t force anyone to do anything.

  3. 3Colonial says:

    Ok, I can see the difference better between Internet vs in person. Thank you for your reply!

  4. Pingback: One Body | Donal Graeme

  5. Neguy says:

    You’re making a severe theological error here. Those verses urging unity are in reference to the body of Christ, i.e., the church. People like Matt Forney would not appear to be Christian. That’s not saying he’s right or wrong here, merely that we’re not dealing with dispute within the church. This is a conflict with the world.

  6. @ Neguy

    This post is to the Christians involved not Matt Forney and other non-Christians.

    If I didn’t make that clear in the post itself I will do that now.

  7. Neguy says:

    Ah, got it. Thx.

  8. Marlon says:

    One can ‘take a side’ based on the evidence presented.
    It’s not some Solomonic debate here; it is quite simple.
    One need not be bitter or mean-spirited after taking a side.

    Having ‘taken a side’ as you put it, I wish, as you said, that us Christians would police ourselves online more so that Forney et al would not have to do so.
    We are so unwilling to say what is right and wrong – even anonymously, online!
    God help us!

    But listen, you need not worry. For most, this means nothing, and in a few days will be forgotten.

  9. @ Marlon

    I disagree on taking sides. What utility is there for a Christian to do so in this case?

    All it does is harden the hearts of either side and makes them more likely to not repent and reconcile. Add to the fact that this is the Internet and none of the
    “evidence” presented is even remotely verifiable in this instance.

    Likewise, this is not something to worry about but rather a good case example of how Christians are not supposed to act.

    I’m not disagreeing with you to be antagonistic though. The hard challenges are what help us grow our faith. They are necessary and a good teaching point. They should definitely not mean nothing or be forgotten.

  10. infowarrior1 says:

    @Deep Strength

    Matthew 18:15-20
    ““If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector. 18Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosedf in heaven. 19Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

    “Forgive as God has forgiven you”

    In what way can one go about this without condoning sin? I’d like to know.

  11. infowarrior1 says:

    Luke 17:3-4
    “Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him,and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.”

  12. @ Info

    1. You said you have already called SSM to repentance on FN’s. Good. It appears on her blog that she has apologized and asked for forgiveness:

    http://sunshinemarydragon.wordpress.com/2014/04/15/soli-deo-gloria/

    2. However, to SSM I would say a public apology is insufficient. Send private e-mails to apologize and reconcile as well. It appears that she has not done this.

    3. I would also tell Lena and LGR to forgive and reconcile with SSM as well. It appears they have not done this.

    Reconciliation need not be done in public. Private is sufficient between them and God.

    This is my encouragement to the Christians involved to take the step to reconcile.

    4. Whether any one of them was 100% right or 100% wrong I don’t know. However, I do know they have all allowed this to spill over into the public and have posted every which where accusing each other and thus stirring up dissension and strife.

    This is not godly behavior, and this is sin any way you cut it. All of them should be apologizing for it and repenting of it.

    This is why I am saying that it appears to me that there is sin on both sides which needs to be forgiven, repented, and reconciled.

    5. Likewise, I would advise all of the other Christians over there to repent and apologize to all for encouraging dissension and strife over at Matt’s blog. There’s quite a number of them who I believe claim to be Christians but are not promoting forgiveness and repentance.

    I have done similar things in the past, and it’s something that I’ve had to repent for before.

    Whether you or anyone uses this advice is up to them. I can’t force anyone to do anything. However, unity is clearly an important concept in the Scriptures, and I believe that many if not all of us have sinned because we have approached it in the wrong way.

  13. Neguy says:

    One challenge is that when you’re in a public forum, actions are inevitably judged – and I believe rightly so – by examining the self-interest of the people involved. That is, does their action benefit themselves? If so, it’s suspect. This means even the “right” Christian response can come across in the wrong way.

    I’m thinking specifically about the latest Mars Hill blow ups. Mark Driscoll posts a “repentance” letter on their social networking site, but one that to me looks like calibrated corporate damage control. On the other hand, a variety of ex-Mars Hill pastors (including co-founding pastor Lief Moi) set up a site for those who were elders and left quietly without rocking the boat to publicly post letters of repentance to those they let down. There’s nothing per se wrong with those, but I can’t help but notice that by repenting in a very public forum, they in effect make themselves look good, like mature Christians. Also, even if they don’t directly attack Mark Driscoll, the mere presence of such a site serves as an implicit stone cast against him at a time when Mark is weak and under attack. Isn’t it odd that they all conveniently repented at the same time when it was in their self interest to do so and in a way that they could in effect take revenge on Driscoll without seeming to? To me it looks like a group of people who were waiting for the opportunity to get revenge finally found their chance and are riding it for all its worth. Maybe that’s not what’s in their heart, but when all we have to judge by is the public behaviors, we have to judge based on incentives, benefits, and our knowledge that the human heart is sinful.

    I have been struggling with this one. What’s the “right” thing to do? Particularly when it comes to public venues like the internet for people with platforms. I haven’t entirely figured it out. There’s one group of people I feel are false teachers and damaged my life with their false teaching. I’ve called them out on it so can’t be accused of neglecting the matter. They’ve done nothing to change anything. I am in a position where I could cause them quite a bit of pain without making myself look bad. Yet looking at the MH situation, I’ve decided not to say anything but to leave it in God’s hands. I can’t trust my own motivations as a party to the matter. The heart is deceptive above all else. And I can’t help but be reminded of 1 Peter 2:21-23 – “For you have been called for this purpose, since Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example for you to follow in His steps, who committed no sin, nor was any deceit found in His mouth; and while being reviled, He did not revile in return; while suffering, He uttered no threats, but kept entrusting Himself to Him who judges righteously”

    When it comes to public matters, I think it’s just super super hard to get right.

  14. @ Neguy

    A very good point.

    In general, with a public apology I think it’s best to be very brief about being apologetic, repenting, and reconciling especially when it affects a lot of people. Obviously, you could say nothing, but as Christians it’s better off that you say at least that it is being addressed so as not to give the appearance of evil.

    On the other hand, I believe the bulk of the apologies between people should be in private between them, the other, and God. It’s like the Pharisees — you don’t need others to see your righteous deeds. But you should end up being changed down the line because of repentance.

    The Scriptures state that private is best via Matthew 18, so if best to keep it between Christians and in private.

    The whole situation here reminds me of the lawsuits among believers. Taking it over to Matt’s was the wrong thing to do and to the shame of us as Christians.

    1 Corinthians 6 (NASB)

    Does any one of you, when he has a [a]case against his neighbor, dare to go to law before the unrighteous and not before the [b]saints? 2 Or do you not know that the [c]saints will judge the world? If the world is judged by you, are you not competent to [d]constitute the smallest law courts? 3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life? 4 So if you have law courts dealing with matters of this life, [e]do you appoint them as judges who are of no account in the church? 5 I say this to your shame. Is it so, that there is not among you one wise man who will be able to decide between his brethren, 6 but brother goes to law with brother, and that before unbelievers?

    7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.

  15. @ Info

    Yeah, I’ll email you.

  16. padre98 says:

    We will be tasked with judging Angels, yet this is outside what we were told to do?

    The Wise take no part in either half of strife, our minds rest on that dusty footed man from the Galilee who is going to do what he said He will do on the morning..Resurrection Day so to speak

    Do know this, Forney is slimy and venal, if there were ever a “do not touch” emblem on the net, Forney would have the badge about him. Not to say the others players are blameless, rather Forney is just a sleezeball and willing to do anything to make a couple of $$

    Say this, would never have a beer with the man, and think Mary and Danny need to find their honesty and integrity and be themselves instead of pandering

  17. Bee says:

    2 Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. EVERY FACT IS TO BE CONFIRMED BY THE TESTIMONY OF TWO OR THREE WITNESSES. (2Co 13:1 NAU)

    Since Lena and Matt are bringing the accusations we need to be careful not to believe what they charge unless they have at least two separate, corroborating facts.

    If SSM & HHG have two biological children and are raising three foster children, that is good enough for her claim to have five kids. No need for her to explain all the details and embarrass the foster kids.

    Lots of people in this world have the same last name. Just because Matt finds some guy with an internet search that is a male nurse does not mean it is the same guy as HHG.

  18. @ Bee

    I don’t think it matters.

    Regardless whether one or both sides lied or not if any claim to be Christians they should be willing to forgive and reconcile. They should be willing to take that first step to pray and bless and contact the other side to forgive and do what is right instead of waiting for the other side to do it.

    Humans are fallible and humans sin. All of us sin in some way or another. Christians should make right through their actions.

  19. okrahead says:

    Please allow me, as the poorest occasional contributor to teh interwebz, suggest that you have made a deep and serious error.
    I have never read Forney’s blog prior to coming across it the other day through Elusive Wapiti because of the SSM issue. I have followed SSM’s old blog and her current one for most of the time she has been writing, and used to follow LGR, so I am familiar with the disagreement LGR had with SSM, which is irrelevant to the matter at hand.
    As has been noted above, Forney makes no claim to be a Christian, or, for that matter, a follower of any religion. He is a heathen and an outsider to Christ. As a heathen and an outsider he has made an especially nasty attack on SSM, which had multiple prongs. The main two I find important are 1) using links to feminist gossip sites to attack SSM and 2) doxxing, or attempting to dox, SSM’s children. The first is simply unseemly and womanish for someone claiming to be a “red pill” man; the second is beyond vile. None of this conversation would be taking place had it not been for the hit piece Forney did attacking SSM’s family, and especially her children.
    SSM publicly professes to be a Christian; if she is being deceitful on that matter it is between her and God; I will assume she is being truthful.
    So we have a reprobate heathen attacking a Christian, and you counsel that no one take sides. I find this a bit off-putting, but perhaps that is just me.
    I must further add that Forney’s attack appears to have come as an attempt on his part to play the white knight for LGR. I wonder if LGR approves of Forney’s attacks on SSM’s family? Does she approve of his use of feminist web sites to attack the character of a fellow Christian? Since LGR’s (possibly mutual) antipathy for SSM is well known, and since Forney has indicated that he is acting as her champion, will she denounce his actions, or at least his carnal tactics? If not, then I submit she is equally responsible for the sinful behavior he has engaged in.
    Finally, I submit that you owe an apology or two yourself. I have never said one word about the disagreements between LGR and SSM, nor do I intend to other than as it pertains to this matter. The attack made upon SSM’s family, however, is reprehensible even by the carnal standards of the world, and when it is a fellow Christian on the receiving end of such an attack, from an admitted non-believer no less, we are obligated to take a side and a stand. Failure to do is itself a sin.
    But, perhaps I am mistaken. I am, after all, quite human. If so, I look forward to your rebuttal.

    Cordially,
    Okrahead
    Fear the Okra

  20. Neguy says:

    Happy Easter, everyone.

  21. Bee says:

    @Deep Strength,

    It matters because step 1 is to not believe accusations without two witnesses. You have summarized steps 2 and 3 very well. But, I feel you neglected step 1.

    You, I and all others except SSM and her accusers are outsiders to this mess. Step 1 is most important for us. Steps 2 and 3 are for SSM and her accusers.

  22. Okra,

    1. This post is not directed at Matt Forney. It is directed at the Christians involved. Another commentor mentioned this in the comments, and I added that to the top of this post.

    2. Matt Forney’s presence in this matter is superficial. This is, at the core, an issue between SSM, Lena, and LGR. Thus, the point of this post is to call for those that call themselves Christian to forgive and reconcile. See the forgiveness verses in the above post.

    3. The Scriptures state that Christians are supposed to pray for their enemies and bless those who persecute them. Therefore, pray for Matt Forney and bless him (Prov 25:21-22; Matt 5:43-48). No need to defend yourself against his attacks with vitriol back.

    This is different than the standard for how we are to treat other believers/Christians which is to call them out for their sin (Matt 18, 1 Cor 5).

    4. Likewise, the side you should stand on is not SSM’s side or Lena’s side or LGR’s side. It is God’s side. God wants unity, love, and peace between believers.

    I have taken a stand on the side of God in this matter and what He says in His Scriptures about how we should act in accordance with non-Christians and Christians.

    If you have Scriptures to where I am in error in my post above I would be more than willing to consider them and repent if I have been in error.

  23. @ Bee

    I’ll explain why it doesn’t matter.

    ~ Say whatever Lena and LGR says is the truth (Matt Forney would have only “exposed it” in this case) — if it’s the truth then what should the Christians in the matter do?

    The Scriptures state that they are to forgive and reconcile to each other.

    ~ Say whatever Lena and LGR say is not the truth or half truths (and Matt has exposed nothing of value) — if it’s not the truth then what should the Christians in the matter do?

    The Scriptures state that they are to forgive and reconcile to each other.

    As you can see here, it doesn’t really matter what the truth inevitably is to us as humans. God knows what the truth is… why do you need to be judge of what is true or not in this case?

    There’s no need to take a side as that tends to only exacerbate the issue because it divides the body of Christ into factions which as Paul said in Galatians will not inherit the kingdom of God.

    It’s clear that they are both offended at each other for whatever reason — true or untrue or half truths — and Christians are called to forgive each other, apologize, repent, and come together in unity.

    I don’t need to know which side is true or false or half true to know the correct ending result. They that know the truth are those involved.

    Indeed, if there was a more clear cut case with evidence such as adultery with photos or recorded conversations then we could say someone is more directly at fault. Likewise, with divorce such in the case of Jenny Erickson. However, this is not the case. Any and all evidence on the Internet is ambiguous at best and should therefore not be relied on. This is why I believe it is futile to take a side in the matter.

  24. okrahead says:

    Deep Strength,
    I understand, and sympathize with, your position, but I do not find it tenable in the current situation. We are commanded to “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” Whatever one’s feelings about SSM, LGR, Lena or whomever else, the attack upon SSM’s children was an “unfruitful work of darkness” pure and simple. LGR could have reproved Forney herself since he claimed to be acting on her behalf (what a pathetic bit of white knighting that was), but instead she has doubled down by continuing to support Forney on her blog. Even if LGR was entirely accurate in her accusations, she had no business condoning the attack on SSM’s family by the heathen reprobate Forney. The fact that she continues to stand by his attack on SSM’s family is entirely un-Christian. We must always remember, “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal”. When I observe an individual using carnal tactics, such as attacks on an opponents children, then my default position is to “judge the tree by its fruit.” Those who have the Spiritual mind do not use carnal weapons, and if you resort to carnal weapons to destroy the family of a professed Christian then yes, I will be against you. I hope this clarifies my earlier statement somewhat, I know that I can be a bit muddled at times. At any rate, thank you for you courteous and lucid response.

    Cordially,
    Okrahead

  25. lgrobins says:

    Have you not seen what is going on at my blog? I am trying to get SSM to engage in a discussion with me, but so far no bites. The Matt issue aside, let’s take a look at her behavior since that post. See the comment I highlighted from her temp blog. Speaking of, her first post there was April 11, 3 days before Matt’s post, but yet I am the one who is supposedly in on it.

    She offers prayers to all of us and then later comments more filth. See it all for yourself. Do you think this makes me want to just run into her arms and apologize? I am not that strong yet. She is the Titus 2 one who holds herself out to be a role model to young Christian women.

    I will swear on a bible and to God right now that I had no input on Matt’s post nor did he do my dirty job for me. And I will not condemn Matt’s post. There I said it. Condemn me to hell and pray for my wayward soul or whatever you have to do. Every link he cited was public information and there was no attack. The feminists exposed all of this before and that didn’t stop her from blogging, in fact it reignited her and she said multiple times, its worth the price. SSM did a post today after she said she was quitting blogging for the safety of her children. Does that say anything? And who says her family is destroyed?

  26. lgrobins says:

    Where has Matt claimed he is working on my behalf?

  27. Okra,

    LGR could have reproved Forney herself since he claimed to be acting on her behalf (what a pathetic bit of white knighting that was), but instead she has doubled down by continuing to support Forney on her blog. Even if LGR was entirely accurate in her accusations, she had no business condoning the attack on SSM’s family by the heathen reprobate Forney. The fact that she continues to stand by his attack on SSM’s family is entirely un-Christian.

    I agree with this. LGR is in error against the Scriptures. She should apologize, repent, and reconcile.

    I posted much of what I believe the Christians need to be doing here in this post to Info:

    https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2014/04/19/unity/#comment-1063

    I understand, and sympathize with, your position, but I do not find it tenable in the current situation. We are commanded to “have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.” Whatever one’s feelings about SSM, LGR, Lena or whomever else, the attack upon SSM’s children was an “unfruitful work of darkness” pure and simple.

    […]

    We must always remember, “the weapons of our warfare are not carnal”. When I observe an individual using carnal tactics, such as attacks on an opponents children, then my default position is to “judge the tree by its fruit.” Those who have the Spiritual mind do not use carnal weapons, and if you resort to carnal weapons to destroy the family of a professed Christian then yes, I will be against you. I hope this clarifies my earlier statement somewhat, I know that I can be a bit muddled at times.

    Correct.

    However, the way we reprove non-Christians in their sinful behavior is love your enemies and pray for them (Matt 5:44) and do good/feed to them (Prov 25). We’re supposed to be perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect (Matt 5:48). We’re blessed when people insult us and persecute us, and we should rejoice and be glad (Matt 5:11-12).

    The way we reprove Christians in their sin is to take it to them in private to correct them, if they don’t listen in 2-3 witness, then after the church (Matt 18).

    If you side with SSM then taking a stand against that “evil” is to love and pray for Matt. Yes, it’s counterintuitive, but it’s straight from the mouth of Jesus.

    The Scriptures are quite clear. The problem you’re having is that you and many others are still thinking in human terms. There is evil on this earth. However, God allows evil to happen.

    I don’t side with anyone because I want to be on God’s side. What God says to us in Scripture as Christians is to encourage and build up one another to do what is righteous.

    And it’s clear from what Jesus commands in Matthew 5 that doing what is righteous is not what many of the Chistians have been doing.

  28. @ LGR

    Do you think this makes me want to just run into her arms and apologize? I am not that strong yet.

    Of course not. However, it’s not about how strong you are.

    Matthew19:23 And Jesus said to His disciples, “Truly I say to you, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were very astonished and said, “Then who can be saved?” 26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

    The grace that you have so freely received and so freely will give is not about you and your strength.

    And I will not condemn Matt’s post. There I said it. Condemn me to hell and pray for my wayward soul or whatever you have to do.

    You’re angry. You’re hurt. You want to lash out. You say things that you don’t want to say when all is said and done. It happens. We’re human.

    However, understand this. There is always going to be evil in the world. Bad things will happen to every Christian from now until the end of time. We are promised by God trials and tribulations in this life. They can happen to us from those even close to us… our family, our friends, our spouses, and other loved ones. Jesus Himself said families would be set against each other because of Him.

    However, I would submit to you to do what is right. Put aside the hurt, the anger, the bitterness, and whatever. Cry out to God for His mercy and grace to allow you to respond in a godly manner.

    You always have a choice even though what is done is done. Will do you what is right or will you do what is evil?

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  34. Gkchesterton says:

    This is a cat fight. I don’t read LGR so I admit an inherent bias but SSM is a good essayist and I wish the two would just stop.

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