Love and respect

One of the things I mentioned in yesterday’s post on Why I don’t respect women is the notion that is prevalent in men who find the manosphere:

I just want a woman to love me for who I am.

Often these men aren’t Christians, but there are some who are. But it provides an insight into the stark truth into the feminization of men. The Scriptures have it correct:

  • Men are to love, not become embittered to, and honor women as co-heirs.
  • Women are to respect and submit to men.

Men are not to respect women nor submit to them except in the specific instances I noted in the post from yesterday, and the same with women to men. Understanding the notion of which sex should love versus respect tells you of the mindset of the person. They are either brainwashed by feminism and disney fairytales or they know God’s truth.

Additionally, Christian men have it better than secular men. We know a God who pours out His love for us. He loves us so much that He sent His son into the world to die for us while we were still sinners (John 3:16, Romans 5). We know we are loved.  We aren’t exposed to the harsh reality that agnostics and atheists are exposed to: that no one will ever “love” them for who they are except potentially their parents. Even that seems not to be the case with the rampant selfishness in today’s modern women.

As a man understanding that you don’t need a woman to love you in any sense of the word is freedom from the prison of your own mind. It is the expectation of love from women that drives most men to bitterness and resentment. It is the expectation of love from women instead of respect which will drive her away from you. Such a man will incorrectly desire love from the woman while respecting the woman. This puts enormous strain on the relationship as it is the inverse of what it was meant to be.

Conversely, when you realize that you don’t need love from a woman but rather respect allows you to see that her feelings do not drive your decisions. Rather it is you running the show, and she is along for the ride. It is not about her happiness but rather making decisions for the family falls into its proper frame of bringing you both toward Christ and living in the world but not of the world. It frees you to stand firm when she’s emotional or you need to chastise, correct, or teach.

When a woman is coming at you with full fury of her emotions in an argument will you be the one that expects respect or expects love? Would someone that expects respect willingly engage themslves in the argument and lose self control in it? Or, in other words, would you respect a leader that got constantly embroiled in petty arguments and emotions? Surely not.

Men need to first set themselves into the correct frame of reference as it will do wonders in order for them to understand how to interact with women and other people. This is why I constantly reinforce aligning with a correct Scriptural perspective in order that we interact correctly with others in love and in truth. Men will become men if they can understand and implement the Scriptures in its fullness.

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12 Responses to Love and respect

  1. alcockell says:

    I remember when I became a Christian, the resource reached for was Josh McDowell’s book “His image My image”. Consider – Autistic-spectrum guy who had been sexually abused by girls – and silenced by threats to cry rape…

    So I was a thing.
    And that is how the misandric society views me – I’d be nothign without Jesus… At all.

    Saved me from killing myself several times…

  2. @ alcockell

    That’s a great testimony.

    And you should think of it as a testimony. To me your phrasing makes it sound like you’re still dealing with a lot of those things mentally and emotionally.

    However, if you are a follower in Christ He has already broken those chains and lifted you out of the mess you have been in. Because we have this grace and forgiveness we can let those things go and be in the past and not affect how we are now and move forward in the future. That is my encouragement to you.

    This post is also written for situations such as these:

    https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2014/08/10/a-lack-of-joy-or-peace/

  3. alcockell says:

    Yeah – I know- however, it’s only been this year that that part of me has come back into time.

  4. KingProphetPriest says:

    When I read this post, my first thought was, “But women are supposed to love their husbands as well.” The verse that came to mind was from Titus chapter 2:

    “Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self-controlled, pure, working at home, kind, and submissive to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be reviled.”

    There it is: train the young women to love their husbands. Love, love, love.

    But, I gotta dig into it a bit more. The Greek word used by Paul here in Titus is phílandros, whereas in Ephesians, where you see “Husbands, love your wives…,” Paul uses an entirely different Greek word: agapáō. The difference? Consider the primary root of phílandros and how the difference between philos and agapáō is described by the word-study section of my online Bible:

    5384 phílos – a friend; someone dearly loved (prized) in a personal, intimate way; a trusted confidant, held dear in a close bond of personal affection.
    Note: The root (phil-) conveys experiential, personal affection – indicating 5384 (phílos) expresses experience-based love.
    [25 (agapáō) focuses on value-driven (an decision-based) love – which of course does not exclude affection!]
    http://biblehub.com/greek/5384.htm

    Note that the “love” commanded from wives is that of friendship and affection towards their husbands, while the “love” commanded from husbands is a love of action, not of affection.

    It’s very interesting that Paul instructs that young women should be “taught” or “trained” to love their husbands. The Greek word is pretty deep: “to make one σώφρων, restore one to his senses; to moderate, control, curb, discipline; to hold one to his duty; so from Euripides, and Thucydides down; to admonish, to exhort earnestly.” This would indicate that wives are prone to neglect this vital calling in Christian marriage. Also, note that submission is something that should be taught.

    The final warning is one that I think may often be overlooked: the reason these things are to be taught is so that, “the word of God may not be reviled.” Wives who do not love their husbands in an appropriate way, who are not submissive to their husbands, these wives “blasphēmētai” God’s word. That’s right. They are guilty of blasphemy.

    Very interesting.

  5. KingProphetPriest says:

    @ alcockell

    I once helped produce an interview with Josh McDowell and he’s a very down-to-earth guy who seems to care deeply for people and doesn’t care much for the over-focus on minor stuff by the church. I was surprised when he used the word “fuck” while relating a story instead of resorting to changing it to “the f-word” to soften it for Christian sensibilities. The interviewer noted it and McDowell said something along the lines that many in the church would spend a lot of energy debating whether usage of such language was appropriate or not, while expending little energy on reaching out to people who were headed for hell. He also told a hilarious story about his son that I wish I could remember, because it demonstrated that he had his head on straight in how to communicate healthy ideas about sex to kids. I still have all the raw footage from the interview, but those two incidents were when we were chatting after it was over.

  6. Looking Glass says:

    The shoving of the multiple different concepts of “love” together as one word, in the Biblical translations, was a direct choice from the Revised Edition onward. There’s a reason we’re far more confused about the topic than we used to be. The deception is very intentional.

    Paul’s classic passage in 1 Corinthians 13 originally was translated to English with “Love” being “Charity”. It puts a VERY different (and correct) understanding to say “If I do not *choose* to care, I am nothing”. “Agape” is choice, pure and simple. This is why I like to say “Your intentions always matter to God”. It’s because they do.

    @Al:

    The Peace of God be with you; may the Spirit of God dwell within and mend you.

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  8. Obliterated says:

    Great stuff you’ve been posting recently. I am amazed at my tolerance I have for it now, as well. Most, if not all, of those in my peer circle of women would probably balk at the last blog title. After a year and a half of reading in the manosphere, it seems I’ve toughened up a bit.

    Also, after a year and a half of reading in the Christo-manosphere…I am still left with a frustrating question in my mind. I have read many comments and a couple of blogs (I looked for one in particular that I read earlier this year, where the blogger blatantly stated that as men, the one thing they desire most is the something they have to earn: respect) an there is one consistent discrepancy I come across over and over. It was actually my messed up relationship with my mother that put a name to what my issue was.

    I apologize if this isn’t super-coherent, but I’ve been trying to figure out how to put this for a while, and I decided that since you are talking about love and respect right now, maybe this would help some women.

    The dictionary defines respect as several things, but the one that stood out to me as I looked at it was this:
    esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability:
    “I have great respect for her judgment.”

    This definition refers to the noun use of “respect”, which is a state of mind, something that we have in our HEARTS. This is the respect that I believe men are referencing when they state, with absolute confidence and authority, that you have to earn it.

    The other definition is the verb:
    verb (used with object)
    9.
    to hold in esteem or honor:
    “I cannot respect a cheat”.
    10.
    to show regard or consideration for:
    to respect someone’s rights.
    11.
    to refrain from intruding upon or interfering with:
    to respect a person’s privacy.
    12.
    to relate or have reference to.

    Now, after ruminating on this for several months, I have not yet come to a conclusion, which is why I am bringing this up, but I have discussed this with several men and there seems to be a consensus.

    All have agreed that the noun form, or the “high esteem” that someone holds for a person in their heart, is something that must be earned. And all have agreed that the verb form–the treatment of a person (in this case, a husband), is something that the wife must freely give to her husband, unconditionally.

    The reason this is so concerning for me is because I think that it reveals maybe why this respect thing can be such a hard thing for women to wrap their brains around. (Hamsters?) Disclaimer: there are women who disrespect men even when the men have totally earned it or done nothing worthy of losing that respect. But…as you look at the verb form, it even has a sample sentence that reveals what I am talking about: “I cannot respect a cheat.”

    I apologize that this is getting long. Please, bear with me. The reason I came across this was because I was asking God if I indeed did not have respect for my mother, as she so often claims. I treat her with respect, but yet she consistently accuses me of “disrespecting her.” My mother is CRAAAZY, but I still wanted to weigh whether or not what she was saying was true. And as I looked at the commandment, I saw that it said to Honor your parents. I thought about, “Do I really respect her?” and I realized, she can sense that I don’t respect (i.e. highly esteem her inside of myself) her. And I do not. She is critical, demanding, lies consistently, steals, gossips relentlessly, is selfish, and the list could go on. So, no, I do NOT respect her, though I do believe I need to treat her respectfully.

    Naturally, with as much as I have been reading and praying about my own respect toward my husband, I began to think about that too. A wife SHOULD treat her husband with dignity and honor and respect. I believe that. I do not follow through with it all too often. That is now my primary battle each day. The thing that makes it difficult is that because of a crisis we had in our marriage, not to mention other things that were pointing to that over the course of it, I had lost and lost even more of that high esteem, internally, for him.

    How can a person inwardly be in awe of someone or highly esteem someone who is consistently dishonest? Obviously, this is a slippery slope. Obviously I am talking from my own perspective. I do no expect perfection. But something that is inherent in my being is honesty, and my entire life, even before I came to Christ, I could not respect people who were consistent liars. Respect again meaning, inwardly highly esteeming them and being in awe of them. We fear and respect God because He is good, He is true, He is perfect…naturally, as a Christian, wouldn’t we inwardly respect those who demonstrate (not perfectly) consistently His characteristics? And when a person doesn’t exhibit godly character, how can we inwardly be in awe of them, highly esteem them? Should we even?

    Goodness this comment is long. Anyway, please, if you have time, could you discuss this? Seeing your thoughts as well as the comments I think would be of great help. Thank you and God bless you.

  9. @ Obliterated

    I think the biggest thing to hammer home as a Christian is that “respect” as defined in the dictionary is not the same “respect/reverence/fear” that is used in the Scriptures.

    1. Respect/reverence/fear (phobeo) is only used in terms of headship or authority. It is not something that is earned. It is something that is given for those in those positions.

    Even though I may disagree with most of the governmental policies and think they are horrendous I still obey and respect the law because God says to submit to earthly authorities. That means even if I’m “caught” speeding you treat the officers with respect and high esteem, if not just because they can come down hard on you if you’re a pompous jerk to them.

    I may not like everything some of my bosses in the past have done. But that doesn’t mean I don’t respect them because they are in a place of authority over me. I willingly submit to their authority and respect them because of it.

    2. In terms of high esteem there are typically two situations in which this occurs in the world where this type of “respect” is given:

    A. Character that would be what is called “integrity.” Integrity is important because it is foundational for trust in someone because of their transparency for the truth.
    B. Excellence in terms of mastery of a particular subject or expertise or experience. One example would be if you were say a basketball player you would “respect” Michael Jordan’s skills because of the excellence he showed when playing.

    Both of these, however, are not the respect that is conferred in the Scriptures.

    3. Given that you are not under your parents authority as a married woman you don’t have to respect your mother in terms of obey her authority over you as a child. However, you are called to still honor her as a parent, and as a fellow human being.

    4. Basically, the main thing you have to understand is that Biblical respect isn’t earned. It’s given because of the position of headship or authority because that is the way God instituted it.

    A better way to think of it is why do we love our enemies? How can we love those who do evil to us or have horrible character? We don’t love them because we are good people; we love them because God first loved us. If we don’t forgive them and love them then He won’t forgive us. This is where the nature of Biblical respect is coming from.

    Other types of esteem for integrity or excellence should be acknowledged for what they are. But they are not Biblical respect.

  10. Looking Glass says:

    @Obliterated:

    I think you pointed out most of our issue, you just needed to run it through. You said your mother lies constantly, so it’s not a “Respect” issue. Your mother is saying you don’t “Trust” her. Which, frankly, by your description, sounds like a good idea.

    “Honor” is something of a fascinating word in the Hebrew and Greek. Effectively, it’s to place “value” (Greek) or understand the proper weight (Hebrew). I read one place that the implication is the feel of the weight of gold. There is value “there”, and you value what is good. And reject all that is evil.

    For some people, there isn’t much to honor in their parents, but the minimum one can do is not lie about them. That doesn’t, however, mean heaping scorn on them, which you aren’t doing.

  11. Obliterated says:

    Hey, this DEFINITELY helps. I was thinking about trust yesterday after I posted, and integrity. Also, thinking about the President as an example–I don’t highly esteem him because he doesn’t value the things (as far as I can tell, anyway) that I highly value–but I still respect him in my behavior and treatment (not slandering him, for example). Just you saying that the Biblical definition isn’t the same brings more clarity. I do have to treat my husband with respect, even if inside I don’t admire him (or whatever the case may be for a wife.) God is not asking me to admire him if he doesn’t have integrity; that would be something different from what we are talking about. Anyway, thank you!

    Another thing: I was thinking about that 60s SUPER POPULAR song, R-E-S-P-E-C-T, that was written by a man but was famously sung by Aretha Franklin. I just looked it up, and it even said on Wikipedia that the song was a “landmark for the feminist movement”! Ha! I was telling my husband that I think that song may have been the cause of much damage and confusion about the meaning of respect, and who should be getting it. I can tell you my mother’s warped ideas of respect have done their damage in my family.

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