Identity Part 2 — Subtle rebellion

This is a continuation of the series on Behavior cycles and identity and Identity (Part 1).

In those two articles I discussed how personal experiences ultimately filter our view of how we see the world. It’s almost impossible for most humans to imagine experiences outside of what they have either seen, felt, or experienced for themselves. Hence, why we have idiomatic expressions such as “you have to see it to believe it.”

I do not believe it is a coincidence that all of the books from the Scriptures were written by men who had experienced the Father or Jesus for themselves. Thankfully, we have the same opportunity as they did today as Jesus’ sacrifice tore the veil of the temple and allowed us full access to the Father.

Since I’m an INTJ and we like systems, I’ve started to put together a Christian world view of things that can help solidify identity in God. Solidifying identity in the Father is important because it grounds the heart to values. If the values are not of the Father then they are of the world. From this perspective you can see how easily such things can mislead people onto the incorrect path.

I hestitate to throw around terms like “inner healing” or whatever, but a correct identity is important because from the heart the mouth speaks. We see this all over the Scriptures. The heart, by itself, is full of evil and wickedness: Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

However, a heart that walks with the Spirit and in tune with the Scriptures has the ability to come into alignment with what the Father wills. Thus, we are able to walk in Spirit and in Truth and not be ashamed in anything — even our past — but walk with confidence in all that we do.

Corrected view of the world

Rebellion is an interesting concept.

There are exactly 3 distinct types of rebellion that shape our thoughts. The more we can eliminate our rebellion from the Father, the further we come into alignment of who the Father created us to be. When we come into alignment with how He created us to be, we live in the Truth. When we live in the Truth, we ultimately display the confidence that we so long for. There’s another idiomatic expression “[blank] is being comfortable in your own skin.” The most common terms I have seen in [blank] are beauty, sexy, or any other such descriptors. However, the mark of being comfortable in your own skin is precisely what is unveiled by walking in inner truth: confidence.

Now, the 3 types of rebellion are evident:

  1. Rebellion against the Father or any of His other established structures.
  2. Rebellion against yourself.
  3. Rebellion against others.

I’m going to discuss all of these in context but mostly 2 and 3 since I’ve discussed the majority of 1 on this blog already.

1. Rebellion against the Father or any of His other established structures.

I’ve discussed rebellion against the Father or any of His other established structures of authority or headship quite extensively in terms of government-Christians, husband-wife, parents-children, or other institutions that you submit yourself to voluntarily. I have already discussed these in various contexts: Structures of authority summarized, Structures of authority before the fall, Authority is good, Authority, submission, obedience, and servanthood, Headship is not authority in marriage, Headship is not authority in marriage Part 2, Headship is not authority in marriage Part 3.

It is important to note in the realm of relationships there are differing roles and responsibilities of each party in the relationship.

The heart of the Father in creation of authority and headship as roles with respsonsibility is to ultimately love. Love is an overused term which means virtually nothing today in the English language. However, if I were to put words to it I would simply state that love’s ultimate goal is to bring out the full richness of value or honor (Greek: time/timao) of those under its care.

G5092 — τιμή — timē — tee-may’

From G5099; a value, that is, money paid, or (concretely and collectively) valuables; by analogy esteem (especially of the highest degree), or the dignity itself: – honour, precious, price, some.

ValueFear, respect, honor, and truth (phobeo & timao) and The etymology of a rebuke — is directly related and assigned by God because all people are God’s creation. Jesus paid the price (time) with His blood for our sins (Matt 27:6, 9). Husbands are to honor (time) their wives as co-heirs in Christ (1 Pet 3:7). The etymology of a rebuke is interesting because as I showed in the above link it’s a conjunction of “epi” and “timao.” In other words, a rebuke is to call someone out of missing the mark or going astray in order to walk into the fullness (epi-) of their value (timao) in Christ. As God demonstrates in his love for us who were yet sinners as Christ died for us (Romans 5:8), any type of rebuke must be tempered with kindness as that is what leads us to repentance (Rom 2:4).

On the other hand is the flipside of authority and headship which is respect and submission/obedience (depending on the relationship). It is not the responsibility of the one in headship or authority to cause to fear/respect/reverence, even though they may have that ability to do so. It is the responsibility of the one in submission or obedience to do so with the atittude of fear/respect/reverence.

This is the difficult part to understand for most people. The attitude and thus desire is as important as the deed in identity because with the Father the heart matters and actions matter. For example, I cultivate an attitude of fear/respect/reverence for God in my daily life through a relationship with Him in reading the Scriptures, prayer, meditation, and the like. This is a rational fear as opposed to an irrational one. However, I don’t do it because I live in fear of punishment or condemnation if I sin as I know His grace already covers that, but I do it so that I can continue to desire to do the right thing daily.

Living in fear of punishment of if/when I sin is not a proper identity in Christ. I realize that I am still human and I sin, but I can immediately repent of my sin and let the burden of it fall off my back when I do. This correct view allows me to spend my time focusing on cultivating a desire to go after God and do what is right instead of spending my time worrying about potential punishment. In regard to identity, mindset is everything.

2. Rebellion against yourself.

Rebellion against yourself is a revelation that was brought up to me recently in some teachings. Self acceptance is an overused term, but underneath it is the reality that rebellion against yourself is to reject yourself. I find this interesting because this is one of the major themes that we see in the Christian manosphere not just from the Christians but from the non-Christians as well. Let me explore this in more detail.

First, we have to go back to the immutable truth about who we are. There’s at least 50+ Scriptures that attest to the fact that we aren’t an accident but are wonderfully made, He loves us, has a plan for us, and that all of this was part of the plan all along. Before the foundations of the world, in our mother’s womb, and after as we are growing.

It is no accident that I am here today. Nor is it an accident that you are here today. Nor is it an accident that you are reading this. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. We have a purpose. We are His.

What rejection of yourself looks like is along the lines of the “I wish” or “If only” statements:

  • I wish I was more outgoing.
  • I wish that I had talents like X person.
  • I wish that I had Y opportunity.
  • If only I had done better at that.
  • If only I had enough money to do things.
  • If only I was taller, or more handsome, or more charismatic, I would be able to get the girl of my dreams.
  • If only I could do A so that B would happen.

Rejection of yourself ultimately manifests into a victim mentality and entitlement. It turns into a reactive complaining fest about your weaknesses and problems rather than being proactive about doing something about them.

Ultimately, this was one of the revelations I had in the previous post on Identity. We all have our various weaknesses. As an INTJ I am pretty aware of mine. I don’t enjoy socializing that much because small talk is boring. I struggle with communication because I’m merely reading body language as I don’t have a good empathic sense for how people are going to be feeling and reacting. I’m easily judgmental and often want to be “right” over “relationships.”

However, is any of this a mistake? Do I really believe that God made a mistake in making me? Or should I consider that God has made each and every one of us with our own sets of strength, weaknesses, talents, gifts, and abilities? Should I consider that He is glorified in my weaknesses when I overcome them (2 Cor 12)?

I think the hardest part of examining yourself is the humility aspect. 5 months ago I would’ve told you that I thought I was on the right track with this blog. However, I was wrong.

The more I examine myself the more crappy thoughts, feelings, and attitudes surface from my memories. Do I actually resent my parents for not setting me up to be successful as a man to find a wife? No? Even a little bit? Well, yeah, probably. I need to repent for that and give it to God. Do I truly believe that God created me the way He wanted my personality to be? Yes. Well, then why would I ever complain about having issues about myself such as poor communication skills. Well, maybe a little then. That’s something to repent for and give to God as well.

My overall point is that when you go through all of these places in your heart and talk with God about them, repent of them, and give them all to God is when you start to experience the peace and joy which are the fruits of the Spirit. It’s not just confessing things that I have done wrong or bad attitudes that I need to be forgiven of, but it is also talking to God that He knows all of you and He wants you to tell Him about it. It alleviates the burden of you carrying all of these things that make you uncomfortable in order that He may give you rest.

I don’t know how much better I can explain that. It’s something you truly have to do in your own time with God to know what I’m talking about. And to be honest, don’t take my word for it; many atheists support meditation because it works. How much more does a loving Father want you to talk to Him.

Rebellion against others

This type of rebellion takes a lot of different forms.

For me I’d often say that when push comes to shove when discussing various topics, the need to “be right” takes precedent over the “relationship.” This is something that I’ve been heavily working on over the past few months because ultimately, “being right” doesn’t really mean anything eternally. This is an important object lesson to grasp because you don’t have to “be right” in terms of many theological things that are a result of the divisive splits in the Church itself.

For example, do any of us truly know whether this earth is billions of years old or only thousands? This is a hotly contested debate in regard to if Genesis is allegorical poetry or a literal account of creation. I tend to lean in a certain direction, but is one belief or another going to hinder salvation? I believe not. I discussed this in Unity, Unity Part 2, and Unity Part 3 — the Church, and Unity Part 4 — marriage.

That’s one of the things I find most disconcerting about how such beliefs play into all of this. For example, even across the Christian manosphere there are certain instances where commentators solely focus on being right “theologically” over helping other Christians become more like Jesus.

I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who has ever said people from the persecuted churches in Asia won’t be saved. However, do they have theological basis of understanding to where they can make an informed decision about the context of salvation and how it is given or potentially taken away? No. They may not even be denominations in some cases; they may have just received a Bible somehow and started to live to serve God.

What’s the point of debating a concept such as “once saved always saved” when you could instead be using such time to actually teach the good news and how to live it out. OSAS is a marginal concept even at best because Christians are not called to “get people saved” but to “make disciples of all nations.”

To be honest, I don’t understand this. Humans like to complicate things with laws and traditions. The heart of the gospel is pretty simple: Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor as yourself. If Christians can’t love each other through disagreements what hope does the world have? If you can’t love your own brother or sister how can you love your enemy? What is the point of Jesus’ prayer in John 17?

I say all of this to say this.

Philippeans 2:1 Therefore if there is any encouragement in Christ, if there is any consolation of love, if there is any fellowship of the Spirit, if any [a]affection and compassion, 2 make my joy complete [b]by being of the same mind, maintaining the same love, united in spirit, intent on one purpose. 3 Do nothing [c]from [d]selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind regard one another as more important than yourselves; 4 do not merely look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. 5 Have this attitude [e]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be [f]grasped, 7 but [g]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death [h]on a cross.

1 John 4:20 If someone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

It is important to understand at the end of the day that through debate, through disagreements, and through whatever else that I’m looking to help those around me advance in their faith and walk with God. This is the essential core to what I’m looking to do with this blog.

If I can’t see others the way God sees them then I am not there yet. If I can’t value others the way God sees them in how He created them to be then I am not there yet. If someone tells me I’m wrong, and I can’t direct them back to God regardless of how I feel I’m not there yet. If I can’t love my enemies and do good to them that persecute me then I’m not there yet. If I take the hardest thing to come my way, and see how I responded to it — if I didn’t find joy and peace in Christ in that moment to spur me on to do the right thing then I’m not there yet.

I am not there yet, but I am improving as He teaches me day after day. And I walk with the expectation that I will be able to get there.


The 3 types of rebellion are evident:

  1. Rebellion against the Father or any of His other established structures.
  2. Rebellion against yourself.”
  3. Rebellion against others.

In the context of our relationships, it encompasses everything in the greatest commandment:

Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord; 30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ 31 The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

Love God. Love your neighbor [as] yourself — in other words, know how to love yourself, and by that measure you should also love your neighbor. In reality, it’s interesting because Jesus upgrades the Love your neighbor as yourself to John 13:34 and John 15:12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.” This means that we love the Father with everything, and then we similarly love ourselves and our neighbors as Jesus/the Father loves. Amazing.

This means throwing down your own pride to walk in humility to constantly cultivate an attitude of fear/reverence/respect toward the Father in order that we might walk in His ways. Doing so will prevent rebellion against God and His established structures of authority. Likewise, this encourages a constant process of self examination, repentance, and restoration of the knowledge and revelation of His identity, your identity, and the identity of others.

How we value or identify value in God, ourselves, and others is how we will treat God, ourselves, and others.

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18 Responses to Identity Part 2 — Subtle rebellion

  1. donalgraeme says:

    For me I’d often say that when push comes to shove when discussing various topics, the need to “be right” takes precedent over the “relationship.” This is something that I’ve been heavily working on over the past few months because ultimately, “being right” doesn’t really mean anything eternally. This is an important object lesson to grasp because you don’t have to “be right” in terms of many theological things that are a result of the divisive splits in the Church itself.

    “Being right” may not mean anything eternally, but doing right certainly does. Theology does matter a great deal. Certain teachings and doctrines can and will lead people astray. What we around these parts call “Churchianity” is the perfect example of this. People are being lead astray, stumbling blocks are being set in front of them, and they very well might not inherit the Kingdom as a result.

    What’s the point of debating a concept such as “once saved always saved” when you could instead be using such time to actually teach the good news and how to live it out.

    The problem is that OSAS does impact how to live the good news. It can and will affect how believers act.

    While I agree that the Church should avoid “how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?” arguments, there are still plenty of substantive theological questions that cannot be dismissed so easily.

  2. @ Donal

    I’m gonna disagree, though not in the way you probably think.

    I think it’s very difficult for anyone, even morons, to go wrong with the simple gospel:

    1. Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.

    2. Combined that with Matthew 28 Commission: go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and teaching them all that I have commanded you.

    It’s such a simple lens but it encompasses everything at once. OSAS has no ground to stand on due to the fact that we’re not supposed to get people “saved” but to make disciples and teach them to observe/obey everything that Jesus commanded. It’s clear that observe/obeying is a critical part of becoming a follower of Jesus… not just having Jesus as some luxury item that you check out on Sunday or can leave behind.

    The thing is the gospel is so easy to share with people because it’s so simple. But so many denominations over complicate things to the point of absurdity. I’m not saying theology isn’t important but the base concepts critical to living out a Christian life are the important ones to heed to.

  3. Looking Glass says:

    A “Question of Theology” is written & normally takes several pages to respond to, including citations in Greek, Hebrew and possibly Latin or Aramaic (dependent on what the issue that is at question).

    “I have a Sin I want to keep doing, so I’ll hide it as a question of Theology” is what normally is going on. This is a significant blind spot that most Christians have. Few people ever *have* a Theology problem: they have a Sin problem they don’t want to give up.

    Though I must admit, I’m going to split the middle a bit. Base Theology *is* important, as Humans will always attempt to unmoor Salvation from God. But it’s not something directly important to Outreach.

    However, when it does start effecting Outreach, you’ve got a serious problem. When there’s an effect, it’s always due to a lack of listening to the Spirit. Most of the stupidity within Theology is down to that. They’re listening to their own Fear or Sin, rather than God. Which is what Rebuke was always meant to contain.

    Churches are in a constant state of screwing everything up, apart from the Power of the Spirit. Revelation 1-3 makes this pretty plainly clear. If you’re not listening to God, you’re going to be cut away.

    I’d also like to point out this is framed intellectual problem in the post-Enlightenment age. Logic does lead to God. Very few *use* Logic to get there. The pull of the Spirit within the Soul is what leads people to God. The Church is apt to forget this because leadership is almost always comprised of educated Men. Being learned in the “mysteries” is, in fact, a requirement for a leadership position. Just don’t think the devil doesn’t have well-worn tricks to undermine. He’s had a lot of practice at it.

    I’m fairly ecumenical by nature. I’m not going to sweat the small stuff, too much, when the important things are in line. But it’s when the really important details get out of line, that’s when it’s a problem to be dealt with.

  4. trugingstar says:

    I’ll go through this when I have time. You should go through this, when you have time. I think it’s complimentary. It helped me sort-out the whole God>Church>Identity paradigm. I think that whole thing is important to untangle in our minds.

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  7. NZT says:

    This distinction between “being right” vs. “relationships” seems like a bit of hairsplitting resulting from trying to find a general principle when ultimately you need to handle situations on a case-by-case basis. Nothing is helped by starting arguments or rebuking people in a way that causes them to become angry and defensive, even if you’re correctly trying to help them avoid sin. On the other hand there’s nothing loving or compassionate about letting someone persist in wrong ideas and sinful behaviors from a desire to avoid making waves in the relationship (this lukewarm tolerance is a key component of “Churchianity” that is justly criticized as worldly and unChristian). When to speak up, how to speak up, and when to hold your peace will always be judgment calls based on whether you think the other person is open to hearing your message. Or to put it another way, the goal is not “being right” and it’s not “preserving the relationship”, the goal is to serve your neighbor by compassionately sharing the Truth with them in a time and manner that will best allow them to receive it.

  8. Neguy says:

    I think there are two separate but related questions: 1) Is the right theology necessary for salvation? 2) Is theology important?

    With regards to the first point, I think it’s clear that the answer is Yes. Right theology is required for salvation. Perhaps the most terrifying verse the Bible to me in Romans were Paul is talking about the Jews who rejected Jesus: “They had a zeal for God but not according to knowledge.” The Jews were worshiping the right God but in the wrong way based in a faulty theology, and they incurred eternal damnation as a result. Where is the boundary line? I don’t know. But having a “right enough” theology is critical. It’s also worth noting that the Catholic Church more or less teaches that you must agree with their theology to be saved (though I should hasten to add they don’t necessarily condemn those in error through no fault of their own, such as those raised in other faith traditions). Rejection of any dogmatized belief in the Catholic Church is generally followed by “whoever says otherwise, let him be anathema.” So any good Catholic like Donal is going to put a high view on the right theology.

    As to the second, I’ll go with Donal that theology is critical because our theological beliefs shape our actions in profound ways. I think there’s a huge temptation today to apply the reductionism of this post. That is, saying that Christianity is about loving God and loving your neighbor. Tons of non-denominational churches (including one that I recently attended for a year) these days are all about loving other people. The problem is, they never talk about what it means to love your neighbor, other than good deed doing. In fact, knowing that the heart is so deceitful, the Bible goes into great detail about what it means to love your neighbor. Love your neighbor summarizes the law but doesn’t replace it. Replacing the moral code of God with “love your neighbor” is particularly dangerous today when love is treated as a feeling and we’re told to follow our (deceitful, remember) hearts. It’s also a cop out in that it lets churches try to square the circle by claiming to be faithful to the word while not addressing things like sexual sin that will cause them problems with the world.

    I totally agree that trying to get someone to think the right theological points or sign the right confessional statement is the wrong way to go about it. But we can’t lose sight of important things in oversimplifying the Bible with summary statements that we can read anything we want into.

  9. @ Neguy

    I know what you mean.

    The right theology obviously matters, but what exactly is the right theology? The early theological creeds like the Nicene one basically do this for us.

    God know the hearts, and at some level we can understand where someone’s heart is by their actions. For it is out of our hearts that we are defiled or our mouth speaks or our actions come. As humans we can never really know if their heart is right before God.

    As far as “reductionism” goes I think the main things are:

    1. Love God, love your neighbor AND your enemies
    2. Saved by grace through faith not of ourselves but the gift of God (Eph 2:8-9)
    3. Recreated in Him to do good works (Eph 2:10) — or in other words faith without actions is dead (James 2)… faith is obedience to Christ and to keep His commands (all of the books of John).
    4. Pure religion is helping widows and orphans in their need, and keeping oneself unstained from the world (James 1:17).

    I don’t know people’s hearts and minds, but I certainly have an idea of what it looks like to God. We have the responsibility to get both the heart and actions right before God.

  10. Neguy says:

    Deep, I think you’ve got a good list there. I’m not sure where the boundary is myself, but the Nicene Creed is a good start. I’m doing a research on a project involving this.

    I think Romans 12 and 13 sums up our response to the gospel. I find it incredibly instructive the way that Paul describes what it means to love your neighbor in Romans 13:8-10 (NASB):

    8 Owe nothing to anyone except to love one another; for he who loves his neighbor has fulfilled the law. 9 For this, “You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

    Loving your neighbor points right back at the Ten Commandments and is primarily oriented around not doing objective harm: murder, theft, coveting, adultery -> and by extension the rest of the moral code of Christianity. I’m not saying we have no positive duties, as other scriptures make abundantly clear. But holiness in personal conduct is foundational to loving our neighbors.

    A lot of people want to say Christianity should turn aside from obsession with sexual sin (at the moment, that mostly means homosexuality) and talk about loving your neighbor, but Paul makes it clear here and elsewhere that sexual purity is integral to loving your neighbor.

    There’s one thing that’s in Romans 12/13 you left off your list: submission to authority. As we in this world increasingly find ourselves overseen by ungodly authorities, the temptation will be rebellion. This is where theology matters in our behavior. Faced with the world that we see around us, in which the forces of sin and Satan appear to be winning, how do we respond? How we respond depends quite a bit on our view of the sovereignty and character of God.

    Who is in charge of this world? Is it Barack Obama, the SJWs, John Boenher? Or is it God? If you don’t believe it’s God, then the outcome of the battle is up to us, and the end justify the means. If we do believe it’s God, then we can “overcome evil with good” and “bless those who persecute you, bless and do not curse.” A classic conservative maxim like “when they hit us, hit back twice as hard” is one Christians must reject. This what a guy like Machiavelli could never understand. He observed that to win you had to make use evil as well as good, but this was rooted in a theology that said there’s no sovereign God. God doesn’t promise we’ll “win” in this world, but we can rely on his promise that all things work together for the good for those who are in Christ, and that whatever we lose for his sake now will be repaid many times over in the age to come.

    Paul says, “Never take your own revenge, but leave room for the wrath of God” Why would we ever do that unless our theology included a God who will right all wrongs more perfectly that we ever could? “Vengeance is mine. I will repay.” Do we believe that? In short, what we believe about God and his character determines everything about how we respond in the world. That’s why our theology is so important.

  11. @ Neguy

    Submission to godly and earthly authorities is a good one.

    I think most Christians don’t understand that God has already won. What Jesus did on the cross destroyed sin. The “world” appears to be driven into greater darkness, but the church grows when it is persecuted such as in China or the middle east because that is when God finds those who are willing to stand up for their faith.

    Rather, perhaps instead of what it means to know Christ has already won is the wrong thing to look at but what it means to be “winning,” I personally don’t need to change the culture or society. That’s all in God’s hands. The only thing I have to do is steward myself in line with His precepts.

  12. Neguy says:

    Exactly. Jesus does say you know the tree by its fruit, so our lives are expected to bring good fruit. But it’s also made clear elsewhere that “It’s Christ who gives the increase.” In the Parable of the Sower only in 1/4 of the cases did the seed bear much fruit. 75% of the time the sower was wasting his time. We are called to obey and steward that which is given into our hands appropriately and consistently with God’s word. If we do that, I don’t believe God will judge us if we fail to change society. That’s his job, and “unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain.”

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