Doom and gloom and the amount of attractive Christian virgins Part 2

In the previous post on a woman’s sexual partners and divorce risk, we found out that approximately 5% of women were virgins when they were married in 2010. I noted that I wanted to go back and do a ‘better’ statistical analysis that is less confounded than previously in Doom and gloom and the amount of attractive Christian virgins.

Let’s do it.

  • There are 10,466,258 women aged 25-29 and 10,571,823 women aged 20-24 and 10,736,677 women aged 15-19 in the US in 2010. Let’s say the range from 18-29 is good. 18-19 make up ~40% of the 15-19 range so ~4,294,671 women.

2010 Census Data. Not much changes in 5 years given the chart as each population group is still roughly 10 million. http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf

(1) Total women in 18-29 age range =25,332,752

———-

  • Less than 20% of Americans regularly attend church — half of what the pollsters report. While Gallup polls and other statisticians have turned in the same percentage — about 40% of the population — of average weekend church attendees for the past 70 years, a different sort of research paints quite a disparate picture of how many Americans attend a local church on any given Sunday. […] His findings reveal that the actual rate of church attendance from head counts is less than half of the 40 percent the pollsters report. Numbers from actual counts of people in Orthodox Christian churches (Catholic, mainline and evangelical) show that in 2004, 17.7 percent of the population attended a Christian church on any given weekend.

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/139575-7-startling-facts-an-up-close-look-at-church-attendance-in-america.html

  • We also know that 70% of young adults in the 18-22 range drop out of church.

http://www.lifeway.com/Article/LifeWay-Research-finds-reasons-18-to-22-year-olds-drop-out-of-church

These two factors as pointed out are heavily confounded with each other. As KPP pointed out in the previous comments, about half of the 2/3 that drop out eventually end up attending again albeit in lower frequency. For the sake of argument, I’m willing to be factor out the dropout rate of young adults altogether using the US population “regularly attenders” as the standard which is 17.7%

(1) Total women in 18-29 age range, (2) who regularly attend Church = 25,332,752 * .177 = 4,483,897

———-

  • 58.5 of women 20-39 years old are overweight or obese in 2011-2012 in the US.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1832542

Unfortunately, there’s no data for strictly say 18-29, so this is just an approximation. It’s probably slightly less because metabolic rates start to slow down into early 30s.

One could say that Christians have more self control than their counterparts. However, as I have noted in posts such as A lesson in false humility: Christians are allergic to healthy lifestyles, Christian women tend to find a way to rationalize that paying attention to physical appearance is an idol. This statistic is probably pretty accurate.

(1) Total women in 18-29 age range, (2) who attend Church regularly, (3) who aren’t overweight or obese = 4,483,897 * .415 = 1,860,817

———-

  • In highly religious groups, up to 20% wait until marriage successfully. Naturally, religious people seem more likely to wait until marriage to have sex. In a study of 9 Southern Baptist churches in Texas (it doesn’t get much more conservative than that), 20% of the church members aged 25 or younger were married without ever having premarital sex.
  • In the general population, the ratio of women-to-men who wait until marriage to have sex seems to be about 60/40 girls-to-guys. This statistic disproves the common misconception that only women wait until marriage to have sex. Statistically-speaking, plenty of guys wait too!

http://waitingtillmarriage.org/4-cool-statistics-about-abstinence-in-the-usa/

If 20% is the number for super conservative Churches like Southern Baptists in Texas then the numbers for other Churches are probably dismal.

Generally speaking, if we look at the statistics in most Churches, they are bent approximately 60/40% women to men. This is a result of the feminization of Christianity resulting in churchianity.  20% averaged for 60/40 split of virginity at marriage 24% for women and 16% for men. This also means that if say there are 60 single women in Church and 40 single men, there are about 60 * .24 = 14.4 virgin women and 40 * .16 = 6.4 virgin men.

  • Proportionally ~2.5x less virgin men than women in your average congregation.

You could say that women who are not overweight or obese have more self control than their fatter counterparts. However, men also find overweight and obese women unattractive. Thus, I am counting this as a wash even though it’s likely that based on physical attractiveness there are more overweight and obese virgins. Hence,

(1) Total women in 18-29 age range, (2) who attend Church regularly, (3) who aren’t overweight or obese, (4) who stay a virgin until marriage = 1,860,817 * .24 = 446,596

———-

I factored in as many confounding variables as I could, and I was conservative at adding more variables to the equation because of confounding factor overlap. Other variables with confounding factors that I didn’t include in the statistics:

  • The National Marriage Project also found that “about 80 percent of young-adult men and women continued to rate marriage as an ‘important’ part of their life plans; almost half of them described it as ‘very important.’” Thirty percent of 25-year-old single women want to be married. Read more at http://national.deseretnews.com/article/1893/The-national-marriage-age-is-increasing-but-not-for-this-group-of-people.html . Only ~30% of women want to be married in the 18-30 age range on average approximately.
  • Those who attend church are not always “Christians.” Based on my experience and others I’d say that only 10-20% of Christians in churches are actually reading their Bible and striving to obey Scripture.
  • Worse measures of virginity in non-extremely conservative Church populations.
  • Denominational differences. Some of the stats clumps all religions together (hindu, muslum, etc.) not just Catholic and Protestant.

Thus, I believe the above statistics are a fairly accurate measurement compared to the previous estimate. If anything, it’s going to be a slight to moderate overestimate.

———-

The previous post resulted in these stats:

In conclusion, there are approximately 125,000 (126,157) Christian women in the US aged 18-29 who regularly attend Church, aren’t overweight or obese, and are virgins at marriage. This is approximately 0.5% of the 18-29 total population (126,157 / 25,332,752). Pretty rare. In the US total population it is .039% (126,157 / 320,090,000).

Specifically, in any random Church the percentage that you’ll find a 18-29 year old attractive, Christian virgin is going to be .2 (virginity at marriage) * .415 (not overweight or obese) = 8.30%. In other words, about 1 in 12.

Let’s update those stats.

In conclusion, there are approximately 450,000 (446,596) Christian women in the US aged 18-29 who regularly attend Church, aren’t overweight or obese, and are virgins at marriage. This is approximately 1.76% of the 18-29 total population (446,596 / 25,332,752). In the US total population it is .014% (446,596 / 320,090,000).

Specifically, in any random Church the percentage that you’ll find a 18-29 old with the attributes of non-overweight or obese and virginity is going to be .24 (virginity at marriage) * .415 (not overweight or obese) = 9.96%. In other words, about 1 in 10.

This is why looking for a quality woman is a numbers game.

The average Church size is approximately 186 attenders. Your average Church is 60/40 women to men as we mentioned before. The women tend to be disproportionately older or families with children. Total 18-29 women in the US who attend Church are (25,332,752/320,090,000) * .177 = 1.40%. If the dropout rates of 70% with about 1/3 coming back are correct then about 2/3 are retained. Hence, we get:

  • 26 women (186 * (3/2) * .014 * .67 * ~10) in the 18-29 age group in your average congregation.
  • 2.6 women (186 * (3/2) * .014 * .67) who are age 18-29, not overweight or obese, and virgins in your average congregation.

Unfortunately, there is room for gloom. But don’t lose hope. Advice in the conclusion.

Conclusions and advice

Criteria:

  1. Women who are 18-29,
  2. regularly attend Church,
  3. aren’t overweight or obese,
  4. are virgins at marriage

Statistics based on these criteria:

  • 1.76% of the 18-29 total population.
  • .014% of the total US population.
  • 10% of Church going women 18-29 are not overweight or obese and virgins.
  • 26 women in the 18-29 age group in your average 186 member congregation.
  • 2.6 women who are age 18-29, not overweight or obese, and virgins in your average 186 member congregation.
  • 14 women who are age 18-29, not overweight or obese, and virgins in your average 1,000 member congregation
  • 140 women who are age 18-29, not overweight or obese, and virgins in your average 10,000 member congregation

The last 5 statistics are probably slight overestimates. More conservative Churches may have slightly more. More liberal Churches will probably have less. Larger congregation have a tendency to be more liberal; hence, it is probably less than 140 women per 10,000 members.

That said there are good indicators for who the attractive Christian virgins are. They wear feminine clothing, have long hair, have an innocent look, have strong masculine fathers, value family and marriage, love children, don’t have tattoos, don’t like alcohol, and other such traits.

Of course, most of the men are probably going after the 10% in each Church, so you need to learn how to be a strong, confident masculine leader if your goal is one of those women.

My advice:

  1. Attend one main Church.
  2. Go to young adult events at other Churches and gatherings to increase your chances of meeting one of these few age 18-29 attractive, Christian virgins.
  3. Potentially attend a mega-Church, although the theology of many mega-Churches nowadays can be questionable. If you do, understand the importance of vetting character and attitudes.
  4. At 2.6 women per average congregation you might just be better meeting many 18-29 year old women at various hobbies, dances, and other social events because 1.76% of them will be Christian women who regularly attend Church, are not obese or overweight, and are virgins. If it’s a physical activity your chances are potentially better since that tends to eliminate the overweight and obese.
  5. Use your friends and families to network!
  6. If you’re still young, perhaps volunteer in university campus Christian group(s) as a leader or continue to be one if you recently graduated.
  7. Other advice here on my detailed timeline and how to guide on the process of finding a wife.

My Church is smaller than the average congregation. I did not find my girl in my current Church.

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21 Responses to Doom and gloom and the amount of attractive Christian virgins Part 2

  1. HayeksGhost says:

    Start Looking overseas to Colombia, or the Philippines. Focus on doing charity work, learning the local culture, and let God do the rest. This is my plan for Colombia

  2. Neguy says:

    Interesting analysis. I would suspect we’d find them clustered in certain communities too.

    Personally, my church has a large cohort of 20somethings. Many of them are very serious Christians. I suspect a number of virgins among them. This is the only church I’ve ever attended where I hear people talk about having actually waited until marriage to have sex. These women are mostly thin and reasonably attractive, but also plain in appearance. In part it’s because they’re not making much effort to make themselves look good. Nor do I see them acting flirtatious or otherwise showing guys that they’d welcome an approach. Among singles, the ratio is heavily skewed female. The only downside is that I’m in a big city, so the women have a career orientation.

    If you’re a quality younger man with game, I think my church would be a good place to find someone to marry.

  3. @ Neguy

    Yup, I’ve been to a few different Churches all over the country. I’ve seen some with mostly older people, some with mostly younger adults and families. It very much depends on the particular type of Church. There are definitely some with greater concentrations than other, but the prospects of any one average Church is not looking good at all.

    Would you say that your Church has a greater concentration than the statistics presented? If so, which ones?

    What are the qualities of the Church that would make it different than your average Church for why you thin that is the case?

  4. Looking Glass says:

    In sociology, distribution is never actually random. It’s the detail no one normally likes to talk about, as it requires one to sort the data by expectancy. That always leads a researcher to answers they normally don’t want.

    Also, on your numbers, you’re looking at a lower-bound from your mathematics. The last time this came up, I mentioned this would actually need to be approached from a Set Theory stand-point. What it really does is result in a range of % possibility, before distribution effects are taken into account. But the numbers are a good place to start. Setting oneself to increasing the probabilities, both in availability and geography, also allows one to get direction from the Lord of what to do when there.

  5. Neguy says:

    @Deep,

    We are a Presbyterian Church in the EPC (moderate) denomination. This is a rare church that was a nearly dead typical mainline congregation that ended up getting revived. I’d say we have a lot of young people and college students relative to your average congregation, and fewer old people. There’s a Christian college in my city, and our pastor came out of a campus ministry environment, and I think the draw reflects that. But it’s a full spectrum. Good mix of married and single, but noticeably fewer single men in the younger ranges than women. There are more older (30-45) single men, but I believe some of them are gay. The younger guys are mostly either dating or married, and all but one of them are classic Christian nice guy/beta/blue pill guys. I’d say mostly it’s people who are lifelong Christians or pre-existing Christians and very few converts being made. I think a lot of people are cycling out of megachurch environments (we probably have 250-300). We have a real church building, and the service is more traditional. The people are more upscale and WASPy – lots of jackets and ties on Sunday, and not that many people in jeans. There are a good number of Asians and blacks attending too, however. It’s clearly an expression of Charles Murray’s “Belmont” demographic. Mostly upscale, educated, put together people who function in a traditional mode.

  6. Jacob says:

    Looking for a wife in church might not be the best approach for a Christian. Even if you manage to identify the 2.6 marryable girls in your church, the feminine imperative will ensure the competition is likely to be fierce and the odds of the ‘winner’ being you is negligible, unless you’re already an obvious Alpha already. Pure virginal girls are not the most beguiling or forgiving creatures when it comes to choosing a man. They will be attracted to the most obvious, visible, good strong man even if he’s beyond their reach. The traits that attracts her will not be how God or a man defines attractiveness, but how a woman perceives it – looks, athleticism, money, power, self-confidence etc. These worldly (hypergamous) metrics are some of the perishing standards Jesus reverses in His Sermon on the Mount. A Christian man should not re-reverse what has been reversed by Jesus Himself.

    That’s not to say a man shouldn’t look after himself and learn to stand as a man in order to care for a wife and children. In a world full of an astonishing array of conflicting value systems and ahiny baubles to distract women, a man needs to stand firm. But being a strong, confident man is not enough, even if that was as simple today as learning Game, shaving daily, and putting on a clean shirt.

    Christians should remember that church is a place where broken people find healing. They do this by letting go of the old sinful life and replacing it with brotherhood with Christ. It’s essentially a hospital for the spiritually sick, with Jesus the doctor and the church as nurse. Christian men and women both are given the task in their short time on earth to be active members of this healing institution, each working according to his/her gifts as he/she also heals. The Christian church is not intended to be a place where Alphas are grown for the purpose of procreation, although there are plenty of churches out there that see the Great Commission in this way. God isn’t concerned with a man being a winner in the marriage game. He is concerned with the prosecution of His plans, which may or may not have anything to do with men being married. He is concerned that we love Him with all our hearts, all our souls and with all our strength, and to apply the gifts He has given us to His service. This is a Christian man’s life’s purpose. Women are not the prize, and marriage is not the main event. The most atttactive thing you can do to a woman is take her off the pedestal that others (father, friends, orbiters) have carelessly put her on.

    All women are blinded to some degree by these sort of hypergamous perceptions (Eve was the serpent’s primary target for a reason) and find it difficult to see beyond their own satisfaction. Alpha men who display worldly metrics for masculinity are all that some women’s eyes can see. God may open the eyes of the blind in your direction, even those of a beautiful virginal woman, but demonstrating your masculinity and pursuing them for this purpose is not the goal.

    Christian man, value and grow the man God has made you and serve Him wherever and however you are at any given time and place. The only worthwhile woman is the one who finds you as you fulfill your life’s purpose. She may have a past, but she demonstrates a certain worthiness by recognising your purpose and responding to it. Talk to her if she is truly repentant of her sins and healing well, and reward her with your attention. Be intentional and err on the side of too much boldness. You’ll find out soon enough if she is likely to help or hinder your responsibilities as a husband. Be prepared for a bit of throughput though, as most women in church have no idea what God wants from them, either as women or as wives. It’s not your responsibility to teach them outside of marriage. DS is quite right to call it a numbers game. Appraise from a distance and be bold in approach. Rejection is a necessary consequence when you play by numbers and remember that the first rejection may simply be a test of your mettle. Being rejected twice by 2.6 cute virgins who are unworthy of you can’t possibly be a bad outcome. Just don’t make it a third.

  7. @ Jacob

    Hypergamy and it’s associated attraction factors are a good thing as I’ve explained before in previous posts. That’s the way God created women. Now, there is a problem IF they are allowed to go out of whack which is what we see in hookup culture. However, it is prudent of a woman to use them as a metric for marriage just like men use beauty as a metric. It’s good for both sides to know they both got a good deal. The factors of attraction for women are general proxies for a man as a Protector and Providor which is good.

    I think you’re falling into a trap that such attributes are mutually exclusive from godly men. Godly men ARE supposed to be strong, confidence leaders in their homes, Church, and even the community. They are supposed to be successful and excellent in their jobs.

    Obviously, any search should be taken on a case by case basis. If you see yellow or red flags you need to be aware and cut ties if necessary.

  8. Ame says:

    “If 20% is the number for super conservative Churches like Southern Baptists in Texas then the numbers for other Churches are probably dismal.”

    i’ve spent most of my life in sbc churches in Texas … and if they’re considered the most conservative churches in the states, that’s very scary indeed.

    the mega church singles groups are well known as hook-up venues.

  9. @ Ame

    Yeah, I’d be thinking like rural Pennsylvania Amish country is probably more celibate. Maybe mid-west too.

  10. Elspeth says:

    Many of them are very serious Christians. I suspect a number of virgins among them. This is the only church I’ve ever attended where I hear people talk about having actually waited until marriage to have sex.

    These women are mostly thin and reasonably attractive, but also plain in appearance. In part it’s because they’re not making much effort to make themselves look good. Nor do I see them acting flirtatious or otherwise showing guys that they’d welcome an approach.

    This comment has gone largely ignored for some reason ( because it reveals an inconvenient truth that bucks the narrative?). I think it is worth highlighting though so I will. Devout, virgin young women who have been brought up to be Christian ladies are just NOT going to offer overt IOIs or glam it up in a way that makes men notice them right away.

    Perhaps this makes it their own fault that they languish? Or our (their parents’) fault? Either way it leads right back to inexperienced women being overlooked because they aren’t experienced enough to know how to lead a guy into a courtship. All kinds of irony there in that last sentence.

  11. @ Elspeth

    This comment has gone largely ignored for some reason ( because it reveals an inconvenient truth that bucks the narrative?).

    Or because I only get 1-3 commenters on most posts…

    People usually respond to what I talk about not the other comments most of the time.

    I think it is worth highlighting though so I will. Devout, virgin young women who have been brought up to be Christian ladies are just NOT going to offer overt IOIs or glam it up in a way that makes men notice them right away.
    Perhaps this makes it their own fault that they languish? Or our (their parents’) fault? Either way it leads right back to inexperienced women being overlooked because they aren’t experienced enough to know how to lead a guy into a courtship. All kinds of irony there in that last sentence.

    Part of it is that past men would be raised to do all of everything. Now none of that is new. But you also have to factor in that ‘approaching’ and ‘learning about how to interact with the opposite sex’ has become somewhat taboo or frowned upon in many Christian circles ironically enough.

    The example of JoJ teaching the men in his group to be strong Christians as well as interact and flirt with the women they were interested in got him booted. Even though he went multiple times to them to show them what he was teaching from the Scriptures and they couldn’t find anything wrong with it.

    Part of it is that parents have not taught younger women to know how to respond. For example, it’s obviously unwise to nuclear reject a man you don’t have interest in because if you get that type of ‘label’ as the nuclear rejecter then you’re not going to get as many approaches in the future.

    I mean most of the time it’s as simple as:

    “If they’re hanging around you and talking to you a lot… they may be interested. Encourage them if you’re interested as well”

  12. Jacob says:

    @DS

    I think you’re falling into a trap that such attributes are mutually exclusive from godly men. Godly men ARE supposed to be strong, confidence leaders in their homes, Church, and even the community. They are supposed to be successful and excellent in their jobs.

    There’s certainly a trap in assuming that mutual exclusivity you’ve mentioned, but I haven’t fallen into it. My point is that godly men who are worthy of marriage cannot be characterised by the LAMPS metrics that women and some in the Christian manosphere have generally used to evaluate men.

    The beatitudes in Matt 5 are as clear an indication as any in Scripture as to who is blessed in God’s kingdom. The Beatitudes turn the LAMPS on their heads. A woman who tajea a marriage decision based on “how God made women” is following the manner of Eve in the old creation and basically disqualifies herself from Christian marriagability. God made Eve too, but hypergamy promptly got her expelled from Eden. God sent His son Jesus to crush the serpent under heel and show His people that godliness is about faithfulness, not about marriage skills and standards of performance. This is the chief lesson Christians who want to marry need to learn. Ironically, the leason is often learned only after people have married fir the wrong reasons only to find out they mean absolutely nothing to living the Christian life.

    I hope you’re not falling into theological error here. I know you’ve written much about this but that doesn’t mean it’s all correct. There’s no shame in revisiting previously held positions. For example, I should like to read the Scripture that says a godly man needs to be “a strong, confident leader, successful and excellent in his job” in order to marry. I suspect what he needs instead is to be strong in faith, confident in Christ and taking His lead, working humbly and striving for excellence in everything (being excellent is not the point). See the difference? The way you’ve put it, the man is the centre of success – a pre-made man. This is certainly what women crave. But is it what God wants? I don’t think God has much use for pre-made men, or even self-made men. He wants re-made men, broken men who are lost at sea without Jesus their Savior. He doesn’t enter into a contract as a part Savior of men, where some of our salvation is due to our own performance or capability. He is everything to the Christian, or He is nothing. He wants men who can break free of their worldly chains and follow Him, totally dependent on their Heavenly Father down to the last little thing. Satisfying women’s hypergamous desire is not in this purview. It is in fact one of those enslaving chains, juat as we saw with Adam in Eden. A Christian husband’s function more than anything else may well be to steer his wife away from this natural hypergamous compulsion and towards godliness. Hypergamy is one of the chains that must be broken for a womans total dependence on God. Breaking this chain may indeed be the very purpose of marriage. Better this happens before getting married than after, but a man must work with what God gives him.

    Ironically, it may thus be true that a man who is “a strong, confident leader at home, successful and excellent in his job” is the kind of man who women feel can slay the hypergamous dragon. But then, it’s not women’s feelings that count most. Eve is the serpents primary target, hypergamy is a loss of agency, so to follow them like Adam is unwise. It is the second Adam who matters – the man who leads by grace through faith in Jesus.

    Thus, a quiet, nondescript regenerate man who works humbly but serves God’s people well and strives for excellence, who loves the Lord and is strong in faith, even if he is a failure and a ‘loser’ by all worldly standards will make a truer husband in Christ than the good Rev HouseInTheBurbs SixPack SuperGuitar Dude. All he needs is one worthy Christian woman who sees him as God sees him.

    The problem of course is that there are so very few Christian women in churches. This is the central problem I think. It’s not a “man crisis” as many evangelical preachers like to claim, but a crisis of faith and teaching amongst Christian women. This is what we need to resolve. Specifically, the question We should ne asking is what must change in the church to gather runaway hypergamous women back from the precipice and tether them once again to Christlikeness. Not the false prophets Christian Grey, YugoGirl, Equality, or the perpetually unsolvable Problem With No Name, but Jesus Christ – humble, sacrificial and full of grace.

  13. @ Jacob

    You’re definitely falling into that trap. There’s A LOT of verses that show that we are supposed to walk in power through the Holy Spirit in the NT. For example,

    https://www.openbible.info/topics/power

    The thing is that most ‘godly’ men nowadays are unmasculine and don’t move with power in either their gifts in the body or in their daily lives is a problem. LAMPS/PSALM metrics are not a goal, but they are a side product of the development of godly masculinity. It’s not wrong to have them, and in fact a man will naturally develop them if he walks into what God has for him. Men should be godly and masculine as that is what God created them to be.

    The problem with churchianity and christofeminism is that it loads men up with responsibility but no authority. It encourages men into a warped form of “love” where love is out of ‘proving oneself to women’ or ‘being nice to her’ instead of out of authority. Men are pushed aside for leadership positions in Churches. It’s a chronic and insidious problem.

    TL;DR: Godliness is not mutually exclusive with masculinity. In fact, you could argue that men who are godly without being masculine are falling into a trap.

  14. @ Jacob

    Also, to give you some more Scripture to support the point:

    1 Cor 6:9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [f]effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

    Generally speaking, effeminate is termed as soft:

    G3120 — μαλακός — malakos — mal-ak-os’
    Of uncertain affinity; soft, that is, fine (clothing); figuratively a catamite: – effeminate, soft. Total KJV occurrences: 4

    On the other hand:

    2 Peter 1:5 Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral [g]excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, 6 and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, 7 and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; 11 for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.

    Virtue or moral excellence is manliness, proper.

    G703 — ἀρέτη — aretē — ar-et’-ay
    From the same as G730; properly manliness (valor), that is, excellence (intrinsic or attributed): – praise, virtue. Total KJV occurrences: 5

  15. Looking Glass says:

    @Jacob:

    While DS took the soft approach, I’ll take the much more direct approach. Though, for the sake of charitableness, I’ll assume you’re not a troll.

    You apparently are very new to this “red pill”. And by “new”, I mean still very ignorant. You somehow have managed to smash up the Red Pill, some veering towards Gnostic theology, bad understanding of proper Christian Theology and the classic Christian trait of Over & Under reading Scripture to produce a rationalization for not doing the *work* that is necessary for one’s station in life. While at the same time removing agency from Women, like all white knights.

    At the moment, you’re the type of person I’ve been concerned is going to start appearing in these parts. You’ve learned just enough of the lingo and can see just enough of the reality behind what we’re talking about, but you still default to your program, unwilling to change in the light of the Lord’s Truth. You still want a God of your own (and your Church’s) construction.

    Also, you’ve setup a great “No True Scotsman” Fallacy, as well, for what a Christian Man should be. (Oh, and the clear passive-aggressive shaming language is terribly unmasculine.) But the nice thing is I know you’re wrong because no honest Christian Man would ever attempt to explain it in the terms you did. Which is why you come off so ignorant of the Truth.

    A Christian Man *chooses* to follow the Lord. That choice brings responsibilities & authorities, but it also requires learning the skills necessary to fulfill what the Lord expects of his followers. The Lord knocks at the door; our job is to answer & invite Him in. But we have work to do. Or, as the Lord put it to Joshua: “Have I not commanded you? Be strong and courageous. Do not be frightened, and do not be dismayed, for the LORD your God is with you wherever you go.” (Joshua 1:9 ESV)

    On the approach a Christian Man should take with regards to relationships (as a general point, in case anyone else comes across this), to simplify it a bit, you have two paths: Patriarch or Monk. What has the Lord instructed you in the direction for your life? Whichever it is, that’s the way you go. Learn to do it very well.

  16. @ LG

    Don’t forget the other Joshua classic:

    Joshua 24:14 “Now, therefore, [g]fear the Lord and serve Him in sincerity and [h]truth; and put away the gods which your fathers served beyond the [i]River and in Egypt, and serve the Lord. 15 If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

  17. Pingback: Patriarch or Monk | Christianity and masculinity

  18. Jacob says:

    @DS

    This I can agree with:

    LAMPS/PSALM metrics are not a goal, but they are a side product of the development of godly masculinity. It’s not wrong to have them, and in fact a man will naturally develop them if he walks into what God has for him.

    The rest is certainly interesting but not that persuasive.

    @Looking Glass

    A very small fraction of what you’ve written about me personally isn’t both ignorant and foolish. The rest is just tooting your horn, I know. I’ve been around “these parts” a lot longer than you surmise, certainly long enough to know not to take you too seriously.

    But this…

    “…trolling…”

    “…passive aggressive shaming language”

    “No honest Christian Man…”

    Seriously, is this truly the limit of your comprehension?

    The truth is that most of what we’re discussing in the Christian manosphere is becoming stuck in reactionary mode. We need to assume a basic level of commenter knowledge and understanding and stop the territorial chest-thumping. We need to move beyond factional reactionism to build a more solid post-feminist establishment.

    After 10 years, I’ve read as widely and and deeply in these matters as any other who comments regularly. My knowledge is sound enough. I’ve simply moved on from debate to establishment. Feminism has now proved it has sown the seeds of its own destruction. It is finished as a movement. There’s more important rebuilding work for Christian men to do now. It’s time to stop the petty posturing, assume the twin model you propose and head forth in unity and confidence. Islam and Liberalism are raising men and women willing to kill for their cause. Stout-hearted Christianen who are willing to die for theirs are needed. It’s time to take what we’ve learned and begin realigning the world with Christ. Allow men to fight the good fight as they see fit.

  19. Vior De Glase says:

    @HayeksGhost:

    You are absolutely correct: go East or South, young man.

    I almost might suggest E. Europe, but my experience there (namely Ukraine) seems to indicate that Christianity is more superstitious rather than practicing (although it is still respected), and there is a fair amount of occult activity there.

    If you insist on E. Europe (don’t know outside Ukraine, but I did notice a lot of relatively attractive women in long dresses coming from the churches in Lativa), find someone who lives outside of the major cities (eg Kiev, Kharkov, Odessa) in the surrounding villages, and/or is a smaller town (eg Sumy, Poltava).

  20. @ Vior De Glase

    There are definitely options overseas.

    The only problem is bringing them back to culture(s) such as the US. If you don’t have a solid community that expresses Christian values then then most of these women will also fall victim to the culture.

    Also, be wary of women that are looking to marry and divorce to get themselves into the US.

  21. Pingback: Doom and gloom and the amount of attractive Christian virgins Part 3 | Christianity and masculinity

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