Marital competency

Building off of the some of Donal’s thoughts.

Generally speaking, there are some ‘systems’ that other people have built before. For example, Dr. Harley who wrote His needs, Her needs has systematized most important emotional needs.

One of the ironies, I think, is that His needs her needs is often marketed to conservative Christians even though the author is not a Christian (to my knowledge) and does not advocate Biblical principles. The same is true with Doyle’s The Surrendered wife. She is not a Christian, but it’s a recommended book to Christians.

These are the areas Dr Harvey recommends.

  •  Affection
  • Sexual Fulfillment
  • Conversation
  • Recreational Companionship
  • Honesty and Openness
  • Physical Attractiveness
  • Financial Support
  • Domestic Support
  • Family Commitment
  • Admiration

This is not unlike the 5 love languages and other potential ‘systems’ to try to identify what is important to marriage. However, these ‘systems’ that are not built on what the Scripture defines as important can be dubious.

Generally speaking, any such system should be built directly off of Biblical principles based on the roles and responsibilities of the husband and wife respectively along with the concepts of covenant marriage (no divorce, kids, etc.). Some of the above but not all are what the Scripture defines as necessary such as admiration (e.g. respect), sexual fulfillment, financial support, and whatnot.

The main problem(s) that you would run into are namely that people change their minds all of the time and are subject to the whims of their feelings. A Christian woman wants to submit… until she doesn’t. She’s in a bad mood. Her friends or family convince her it’s a bad idea. Her husband was ‘being too harsh.’ She’s not getting her ‘needs’ met. In general, men are more apt to do fulfill their commitments even when they’re not happy about it.

Now, there is a minority of men and women who take things seriously. Their yes is yes and their no is no. The problem is that it may be quite difficult to separate out these serious Christians from the lukewarm ones. You can build all the systems that you want, but if the people are not interested in taking God and/or the Scriptures seriously then you get someone who will eventually go off the rails in the future. Not if but when.

In general, consequences are more effective in deterring bad behavior. No fault divorce increased rates of divorce. Mother custody of children increased instances of divorce. When there is no penalty for bad behavior you get more bad behavior. When you can’t call out bad behavior there is more bad behavior. Bad behavior breeds from selfishness. Incentives matter, as much as we like to admit it or not.

Thus, a good marital competency index would identify:

  • Covenant marriage requirements (no divorce, kids, sex needs, etc.).
  • Roles and responsibilities of the husband and wife to each other.
  • Personal, family, and community interaction(s) that incentivize good behavior.
Advertisements
This entry was posted in Godly mindset & lifestyle and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

11 Responses to Marital competency

  1. Pingback: Marital competency – Manosphere.org

  2. Jeff says:

    My wife and I counseled directly with Dr. Harley in person. He claims to be a christian and at the time. His workbook came out while we were still counseling.
    This was back around 2000. He was semi-retired. He is absolutely blue pill. I think he is dead now, but his son and counselors run things. They are total blue pill/manginas and do everything to protect the FI. Soft dread is used for affairs, but in a stupid female way.

    I was red pill in HS, then blue in college, then back to red pill in med school. Back to blue in early marriage. 2000 was approx 5-6 in marriage. I initiated contact with Harley. He told my wife point blank to have more sex, but told me it was my fault she didnt.
    Everything fell back on me. This started to bring me back to red pill.
    I didnt even know red/blue until a couple of years ago. I can tell you that he made me realize that AWALT and that counselors and authors of books cannot make $$ if they told the truth. Women are the main readers and initiators for marriage counseling and spend (guessing) 99% of the money (earned by their husbands) for the counseling/books/conferences/seminars related to marriage. He did tell me I had a legit reason to divorce her, but that it was my fault (try figuring that one out).
    His stuff and others are crap. The best one out there is probably Love & Respect, only they dont know how to teach that their husbands already love them. That is one thing the modern woman cannot believe because she doesnt feeeeeeeel loved.

  3. @ Jeff

    I figured as much reading the actual website.

    It doesn’t mention Christianity or the Bible at all. Things like roles or responsibilities are not on there. I wouldn’t recommend going that route, especially since the “emotional needs” could be reversed where say the wife wants respect or the husband wants domestic help.

    More Scriptural Truth is required at the expense of feelings.

  4. jeff says:

    It is worse than you could imagine. It is my opinion that the bible lays out quantifiable steps for love, kindness, forgiveness, etc… What women want and what all the pastors and counselors allow for and promote are non quantifiable attributes. This allows them to judge what is and is not loving, kindness etc., and also decide what is and isn’t unloving or harsh etc.

    When a man says he loves his wife, modern women get to decide what that is and what it looks like based on how they feel. When you game a woman, one moment the comment you made might be funny, loving, kidding, tingle inducing. The next moment that same comment will get you labled sexist, misogynist, harsh, unloving. Giving her flowers one moment might be the nicest thing anyone has done for her you really must love her, the next eh, “that’s not loving”.

    That is where his program falls apart. The last time we counseled with a pastor he even told me when going into counseling with a couple he automatically things the husband is in the wrong. It’s no wonder churches are failing and pastors look to the person who writes the checks as the one he will help.

  5. feeriker says:

    What Jeff said. Dalrock dissected Harley and his BS a year or so ago. Pure blue-pill poison. Then again, that’s pretty much the case with EVERY “marriage counselor,” whether they call themselves Christian or not.

  6. feeriker says:

    The last time we counseled with a pastor he even told me when going into counseling with a couple he automatically things the husband is in the wrong.

    PLEASE tell me that you ended things right then and there and left, never to return (I wouldn’t have faulted you for kicking the pastor in the nuts on the way out the door either).

  7. @ feeriker

    Yep, I was just using it as an example of various systems that people use already.

  8. jeff says:

    feeriker,

    I don’t remember ending it there because after hearing our grievances toward each other he was astounded at the disrespect and contempt my wife showed toward me. He did tell her how she should be behaving, but said it was my fault.

    I painted him into a corner, which I do not think pastors are use to. He acknowledged Truth, but couldn’t wrap his blue pill mind around solving a feminist problem using red pill wisdom. To him a husband was to climb up on the cross and die without the wife being responsible for her own sins.

    Love & Respect almost gets it right.

  9. feeriker says:

    I painted him into a corner, which I do not think pastors are use to

    They’re absolutely not used to that AT ALL. This is why churches today are so overtly hostile toward men in general and to assertive, critically thinking men in particular. Such men are overwhelmingly likely to call out the pastor’s heretical, unbiblical nonsense for what it is, and very publicly so. Thus the extra effort, even if largely a passive one, to drive all but the most spineless, obsequious, milquetoasty wusses out of the church.

    He acknowledged Truth, but couldn’t wrap his blue pill mind around solving a feminist problem using red pill wisdom. To him a husband was to climb up on the cross and die without the wife being responsible for her own sins.

    That this is what passes for “leadership” in what passes for “churches” today speaks volumes about why the decay is as advanced as it is.

  10. donalgraeme says:

    Covenant marriage requirements (no divorce, kids, sex needs, etc.).
    Roles and responsibilities of the husband and wife to each other.
    Personal, family, and community interaction(s) that incentivize good behavior.

    The first two would match for individuals. The last group would actually affect the overall threshold. The effect of community cannot be overstated. In fact, in the end it is probably the most significant factor.

  11. Phil Ossifer says:

    Dr. Harley’s wife Joyce had a talk show on the Salem Christian radio station here in the Twin Cities. He was a guest co-host for “Marriage Talk Monday,” when he basically would peddle his wares.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s