Questionable strategy

There was recently a boundless post on Am I too strong? which is written by a woman.

Have you ever been told that you’re too strong to date? Or, have you wondered why you’re successful in several areas of life, but, at the same time, dateless?

A couple of years ago I came across the post On Daughters and Dating: How to Intimidate Suitors by Jen Wilkin on The Gospel Coalition. Wilkin’s underlying message is for parents. She encourages them to raise their girls to be confident Christian women, which in turn easily and naturally helps them ward off unwanted attention and advances.

Anyway, regardless of anything about the article, I think the comments are better. I’m only taking comments from the women, as it seems like there are some disparate comments from the men. Some of the men “laud” the strong women while some question the distinction of “strong” in faith versus strong of the world and how many times it means of the world.

Commenter 1: I love this! I tend to be pretty independent, not because I don’t need a man but because I don’t have one. I was talking to my brother and asking if maybe I was too intimidating, he told me that I need to just keep doing my thing and if a guy is intimidated, he’s not the right one. I’m 31 and single, I would like to be married but for now I’m traveling, serving the church, mentoring, growing, learning, competing on my horse…

Commenter 2: I can relate… even if the words were not well-chosen, I know what you mean. I’ve watched as my more “swoony” friends have dated and been proposed to and married. I’m just not the type of girl who’s needy or flirty… and in a way, I think that makes me more intimidating. It’s just going to take a special, courageous guy to initiate a relationship with me. It’s almost as if guys have been conditioned to wait for a girl to initiate a relationship. It’s very frustrating for those who want to be pursued.
Commenter 3: [Name], I like how you described it. I’m not “swoony” or flirty either, and that’s been to my dating detriment, but it’s also helpful in weeding out the “slouchy pants” guys. 🙂 I can’t wait to be flirty with my forever person. Thanks for commenting. Best wishes to

Essentially, what it seems to boil down for women who have commented that they are single for a while is that they’re basically uninterested in seeming interested in men that they may like. This is not some random anecdote from the ‘sphere but is a pretty common phenomena throughout the Church.

Indeed, two other commenters even suggests that not showing interest is probably not the best strategy.

Commenter 4: On the other hand, being “flirty/swoony” is a way that women can communicate that they are interested in being pursued.  I’m not saying you should do this in an over-the-top way or a way that dishonors God, but a guy is going to pursue a woman he thinks is interested in him too more so than a woman who is subtly (or even overtly) communicating disinterest in being pursued.

Commenter 5: Yeah. Men tend to approach women more when they’re flirty or seem interested because of the decreased rate of rejection. Plus, why would you not want to try to get to know someone who is interested in you.

Seems to be a common theme from the single women in the comments. They don’t want to communicate any interest at all even if it would potentially increase their chances. They also seem to think it’s somehow weeding out men that aren’t good enough.

Not the strategy I would choose, but hopefully it works for them.

When you’re single for so long and waiting and continuing to ‘weed out’ so-called ‘weak men’ who you don’t want to be with it may be a good idea to actually reevaluate your strategy. Obviously, these women probably don’t know and maybe don’t want to hear about how their increasing age and decreasing beauty is working against them, so it may pay to change their strategy a bit.

Many commenters here, at Donal’s, Dalrock’s and Scott’s continue to suggest that single Christian women learn how to flirt, be outgoing, and improve their communication skills so they can increase their chances. It seems like this advice is also needed out in the “real world” as well.

Since this post was written in queue, there are more comments. This is an honest comment from a man who illustrates the non-blog way that men view women:

Being totally honest here, it depends on what I perceive your value to be.

If you are the only 10/10 I ever expect to enter the doors of my church, I really enjoy being around you and your life is rich with spiritual fruit, I may make more effort to scale the wall to win your hand in marriage.  On the other hand, if you are only borderline and you put up resistance (or your father does), I may conclude it isn’t meant to be.

If I view a lady as borderline and I interact with her, it means I am vaguely open to the possibility of a relationship and want to give it a chance to see if I grow to like her over time.  A lady therefore needs to make a realistic assessment on whether I see her as a 10/10 or a borderline lady: – the danger is that she will put up walls, wrongly assuming I view her as a 10/10.

If a lady has absolutely no interest in marriage to me now or ever, I am unlikely to appreciate being lead on.  On the other hand, if a lady thinks she may one day come to like me, but wants me to work harder to win her over, she has to make sure her response communicates that, because my default interpretation of resistance in a lady is “I’m not interested in you, not now, not ever”.

For instance, a lady might say, “You seem like a nice guy, but I don’t know you all that well and I’ve got temporary difficulties in life that would make me struggle to give due attention to a relationship at this precise moment”, before following it up with a group-date invitation (or two, or three) a little while later to see if I rise to the bait.

In a nutshell, to use a gambling term, it is all about a lady knowing her hand.  Granted, there are no guarantees in life, so a strong hand may not ultimately result in the desired outcome, but a lady who regularly overplays her hand is unlikely to reach her end goal.

When it comes to whether or not I like “feisty” ladies, it all depends.  A godly man will always want to build his future family according to God’s blueprint and so a man will look at women to see if they demonstrate the potential to be obedient to him as required by Ephesians 5:22-24.  If a lady is feisty for Christ and her spiritual fruits indicate this, then that is a fantastic thing!  On the other hand, if she is “feisty” as in someone who is always argumentative about matters there is no value in arguing about, I will conclude she will not be a useful “asset” to me and ultimately draining of my energy.

A lady therefore needs to show me that she has sound judgement regarding when to be “feisty” and when not to be “feisty”.  Ecclesiastes 3:7: – “A time to rend, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak”.

The more beautiful and feminine a woman is, the longer leash they get from a man. The same is true of an attractive jerk. That’s just the way it is folks. Attractive people get a great benefit of the doubt.

That doesn’t mean you should take advantage of attractiveness to act like a witch or dbag, but you should see the importance of attractiveness if you desire to be married.

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14 Responses to Questionable strategy

  1. Wizard Prang says:

    I read the source piece, but would not comment there, as she explicitly only asked for comments from females (“Why can’t I find a husband? No boys allowed!”), and I lack the requisite equipment.

    It’s obvious to me that she has been overly picky and/or thinks too highly of herself, or she would have had at least one serious offer down the years. It is also obvious that she feels that she *should* be married, or she would not have put be writing an article about it.

    “nothing [is] more terrifying than a woman who knows her worth to God and to her family.”
    Rubbish. Nothing is more terrifying than a vengeful father with firearms. And this whole “know-your-own-self-worth” thing is getting a little shopworn.

    “Women who are a “catch” are overlooked”
    Women who *think* they’re a catch, usually aren’t one. I have *never* met an American woman who underestimated, or even realistically estimated, her attractiveness.

    She’s also 35, which puts her pretty much in the graveyard as far as marriage prospects. She has to realize that the men whom she considers worthy are in their prime and can get women ten years younger than her. To quote another wag, “1) Raise your standards 2) Lower your expectations and 3) Lose weight”. But I don’t see any of the ladies in the comments making that suggestion.

    I don’t know her story, but a lot of women who consider themselves “strong and independent” come off as annoying and entitled. We are not “intimidated”, we are either disinterested, discouraged or irritated by you. Conversely, a man who is intimidated by “a mere slip of a girl” is not marriage material either.

    What is truly amazing to me is how many of the commenters are female, middle-aged, strong successful… and alone.

    And it’s *NEVER* their fault.

  2. SnapperTrx says:

    This is a great post. There is a Christian artist name Jamie Grace who sings nice little ditty’s about God and stuff that I added to my FB feed after seeing her a couple of times at Winter Jam. She is big on not interacting with ‘boys’ (I think she is pretty young) because she wants to wait for the right guy to come along to marry. She is often posting stuff about how she gets flak for being single, but it doesn’t seem like she understands that she needs to make herself appear available to be married if she wants to get married! The whole ‘I’m so holy I just sit in my closet and rely on God to bring me a man’ thing just doesn’t work, but there is no one around to tell her that! Instead she gets support from others around her and pats on the back for her ‘godliness’. I don’t think she has a snooty attitude, I think she really believes that’s how things are going to work for her, and they just aren’t. Therefore she remains frumpy and lumpy, fairly overweight and often dressing like a dude.

    To quote the Geico commercial: “That’s not how it works. That’s now how any of this works.”

  3. @SnapperTrx:

    Alpha widow by proxy. Any Woman in the music industry is going to be that if she can keep her pants on.

  4. Good post!
    I think there is a lot of confusion out there about what is attractive to the opposite sex.

    That line in comment 2: ” It’s just going to take a special, courageous guy to initiate a relationship with me. ”
    Wow. If a guy has to be “courageous” to ask you out, it doesn’t sound like he’s in for a fun time. Kind of like when the media says a certain woman might be “brave” for wearing a certain outfit… it’s not a compliment!

    I don’t follow Jamie Grace on social media, but I do like her music!
    Have you heard her song Just a Friend? It’s about her being interested in a guy but he doesn’t see her romantically.

  5. Leiff says:

    For all the strong, independent women out their who can’t figure out why you aren’t married, it’s because your not worth it. Men dig giant holes in the ground often risking their lives to dig out gold, diamonds, silver, copper, and even coal. This requires a lot of effort, but they do it because those things are valuable and worth it. Obviously your worth is less than a sack of coal.

  6. SnapperTrx says:

    Yes, well, as much as I like her upbeat attitude and catchy tunes, she doesn’t dress well and is rather paunchy. She could likely get married in a heartbeat if she lost some weight and dressed a bit more feminine, but there would still be that whole ‘Are you the man God sent me?’ attitude. God is likely not going to ‘send’ you someone, but will rather make the marriage between you and the someone you choose to marry good if you both seek Him first and if she is serious about being obedient to her husband. The whole ‘God selected spouse’ thing is killing marriage. Whom did God say Christians should marry? Other Christians. I didn’t see any other qualifier or mystical prayer to chant for better direction.

  7. feeriker says:

    What Leiff said on May 12, 2017 at 1:18 pm, only not nearly as nicely or politely.

  8. Lost Patrol says:

    @Wizard Prang

    Working through the source document and comments I’d have to say my impression matches yours. These sorts of articles and the comments from women follow a pattern wherein the woman is always strong, independent, confident, motivated, fit, well traveled and leading for The Lord. She’s content in her current circumstances (no vulnerability must be shown) but still wants to get married to a very specific type of “partner” and have a family. The men that have so far failed to meet her requirements are labeled intimidated, scared off, too lazy to put in the work to scale her wall, etc.

    All this gives off a palpable vibe that is readily apparent to men but must be undetectable to women. A man is not looking to harness himself to another competitor when he’s thinking about a wife.

  9. @Lost Patrol:

    Because it’s all about Her. It’s always about Her. It’s the fundamental “lack of Faith” problem. “Honey, you ain’t that special.” But that’s not something Women are willing to accept.

  10. Wizard Prang says:

    @Looking Glass

    I know I’m right… but it is always rewarding to get a second opinion 🙂

    I suspect that too many of these women are projecting; It goes something like this: “I want a strong, confident, experienced man, so that’s what he must be attracted to”.

    Er… no. Honey, what you call “strong and independent”, we call “annoying and irritating” You want a man who can “handle” you, we want a women who does not *require* handling.

    Ladies, here;s a newsflash: we are *not* attracted to masculine strength (“I’ll take ‘things that would make us gay’ for $200, Alex”). We are attracted to youth, beauty, fertility, femininity, vulnerability and, yes, chastity (self-restraint). And most of you don’t measure up, so we don’t approach. And time is on our side; the older we get, the more options we have, and the fewer you do. So raise your standards and lower your expectations.

    The vast Majority of EAPs (Evangelical American Princesses) can be summed up as Bored, Entitled, Delusional (when it comes to her understanding her true marriage value and worth) and mostly overweight. Even the most average of them seems to be holding out for a truly exceptional, awesome guy. He will “just know” and it will “just happen”. And when they can’t find him, they will blame Men or God before they look in the mirror.

    If you want to freak them out, ask these EAPs about chastity, biblical submission and obedience. If their heads explode, tell them “that’s the price of marriage”, and move on. Cackling like Vincent Price is optional but highly recommended for theatrical effect.

    Full Disclosure: Sorry girls, I’m married… to an *awesome* old-fashioned, traditional, respectful girl from a third-world country. In all the time that I have been living in the U.S. I have yet to meet her equal, or even anyone who even comes close.

  11. Pingback: Random Musings and Links- #9 | Donal Graeme

  12. headwrench says:

    For me personally, I interpret the cold shoulder as just that. If a woman is really into you, she’ll let you know. In my experience anything else is a sign she really isn’t. Trust me you never want to win your way into a lukewarm relationship like that. These women will swoon for someone, do you want to be the one paying her bills when HE shows up?

  13. ichaelmae says:

    Snapper: Apparently Jamie Grace does date, just not casually. First comment on the vid below.

    I’d never heard of her before reading this article, but she came up in my YouTube feed today

  14. Chris says:

    Ms. Grace has bought into that whole “courtship” thing. She’s never had a boyfriend, and I suspect that scenario won’t change anytime soon.

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