Are Christian guys not taking dating seriously Commentary

Are Christian guys not taking dating seriously is one of the newer posts making rounds of the old facebook, which unfortunately includes me.

Young Christian men, we have a problem.

It’s a problem that will require all of our courage, confidence and creativity to solve. It’s a problem that affects many of our brothers in Christ—it might even be affecting you. Finally, it’s a problem that’s disappointing many of the young Christian women in our lives.

We aren’t dating them.

This never used to be a problem, gents. My father has many memories of giving the cute girl from youth group a ride home on the handlebars of his bicycle, while my grandfather had something of a reputation for dancing with all the eligible young ladies at Christian fundraisers.

But somewhere among books like I Kissed Dating Goodbye, a lack of relationship role models and trying to navigate the minefield that is modern dating, something changed for our generation. A number of problematic attitudes crept into Christian culture.

So, young Christian men, why aren’t we dating?

[…]

1. WE’RE FREAKED OUT ABOUT FINDING OUR SOULMATE.
2. WE TAKE DATING TOO SERIOUSLY.
3. WE’VE GOT THE WRONG STANDARDS.
4. WE FEEL LIKE WE CAN’T DATE OUR FRIENDS.
5. WE’RE STILL DISCERNING.

This post has clearly resonated with a lot of people seeing as how often it has been reposted and seeing it on facebook. However, it still doesn’t mention any of the 3 big elephants in the room that I’ve talked about before.

  • Lack of attraction
  • Feminization of the Church
  • Lack of mentors and discipleship

Everyone knows there is something wrong, but they can’t seem to figure out what it is. This list is more just a superficial poking around of the problem.

Fortunately, a ‘Jimmy Lipton’ in the comments was kind enough to enlighten everyone what was actually happening:

Christian women(white ones mostly) have become very useless, because they have this super perfect version of a man that makes them feel good all the time, never saying the wrong thing. Then they pick some worldly asshole, while they reject the real Godly humble men. These women(girls) play games in church all the time and reject guys constantly, then they hit on the same very few douche bag dudes in church and compete for the say top 10% and wonder why they all feel insecure and cant get a “real man”. They end up settling down for some gay ass hipster boy or Justin Bieber or man-bun douche.

And a ‘Jon Crass’ pointed out what actually happens inside of a Church:

Here’s the 100% HONEST truth from a man’s perspective. You won’t hear this anywhere else. Let’s say a man is part of a church community containing several single women around his age. Chances are pretty good that all of these women know each other and fellowship on a regular basis. Chances are also pretty high that they share stories and gossip with each other. That being said, the man is likely going to be physically attracted to more than one woman in this group at once. But he will be interested in one woman more than the others and will befriend/orbit her. He will not immediately ask her out because he better be 100% sure she will say yes.

Here’s why, the logical reasoning of man:

1) If he asks her out and gets rejected, then all of the girls in the group will learn of the rejection.
2) Once the other girls learn of the rejection, then chances are very high that *none* of them will accept him on a date.
3) At this point, he’s basically cast off as a “low value” male.
4) Asking any other girl of the same group out on a date will make him look desperate and low value.

Given this environment, the man’s strategy is to become friends with the woman he’s interested in and hope that she will become interested in him romantically. He’s going to treat her well, because he likes her a lot. Of course, a relationship doesn’t happen because he’s already in her friendzone.

Even if she does accept him on a date and the relationship doesn’t work out, her church girlfriends would not feel right dating him because “you don’t date your friend’s ex’s”.

As you can see, from the man’s perspective, dating within the church is an incredibly frustrating experience. As a result you see a lot of women not being asked out on dates and wondering whether the modern man is emasculated.

Quite simply, Christian women are very hostile to men when it comes to romantic interest.

Quite the clear perspective.

Still, none of the them addressed the attraction factor or the poor quality of mates to choose from generally speaking. However, most young men aren’t aware that most aren’t marriage material if they look deeply at their value system either.

In conclusion, another article in a long line of ‘feel good sentiment’ that misses the mark with what is actually going on the world. It gets popular because of its feel good message, but it’s lacking in bare bones Truth so it can’t actually address the problems.

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21 Responses to Are Christian guys not taking dating seriously Commentary

  1. I take that back. I went through all of the comments and one person mentioned feminism.

  2. Men are indeed dropping the ball. Which is expected, because they are fallen.

    They are not, however, dropping the ball in the way that is implied by the various man-up rants.

    What the public wants: Christian dudes dating/marrying fat girls and carousel veterans.
    What the Lord wants: Christian dudes taking their religion seriously, seeking better understanding of the Gospel, and seeking to understand God’s commands for them.

    Those who do the latter will find new confidence as they put themselves on the Lord’s side. They will find themselves working harder and feeling less tired; they will feel more sorry for unattractive girls, while feeling less pressure to engage with them romantically. They will feel more confident approaching women they are attracted to, while also becoming pickier. They will find themselves both more obedient and more grateful.

  3. donalgraeme says:

    +1 to what dropit said.

    There is an awful lot of ignorance of the problem. But there is even more willful blindness going on. People are deliberately avoiding the truth, because they know it will force them to confront even *more* unpalatable truths.

    Also, you forgot networking DS. That is a critical thing which is missing these days.

  4. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It may be a good idea to stop blaming the men. Women set the rules in the marketplace and if they want the ship to founder, it is well within their power.

  5. feeriker says:

    “Are Christian guys not taking dating seriously?”

    As has been asked across the Christian manosphere on several occassions, what exactly is “Christian” about the practice of dating in the first place? Where in either Testament of the Bible is it described as God’s way of pairing a man and woman as husband and wife?

    Along with other examples of willful blindness and deafness, this is another example of the church attempting to compromise with the secular culture to which most of its members are slaves. “Dating” isn’t working within the church because 1) it is not a Christian concept, 2) marriage and family are generally non-priorities to the world-worshipers that make up the majority of most congregations, as is the case with their overtly secular counterparts, and 3) almost no churches today have forged the ties among their membership to make genuinely biblical alternatives to dating viable.

    Indeed, no one is willing to see the elephant in the room and confront/cage it. That is the very essence of churchianity and is the cause of so much failure and disfunction today. The church needs to file this one under “self-inflicted wounds.”

  6. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Hypergamy is a knife with two edges. While the girls are only paying attention to top tier men, the remaining men, ignored by women, have lost interest. That is what happens when incentives are withdrawn.

  7. Kentucky Headhunter says:

    This may not be the root cause, but it doesn’t help either.
    https://whoresandale.wordpress.com/2017/07/25/u-s-girls-are-the-fattest-in-the-world/

  8. Chris says:

    A certain Dylan song comes to mind:

    “People are crazy and times are strange
    I’m locked in tight, I’m out of range
    I used to care, but things have changed.”

  9. C H says:

    “1. WE’RE FREAKED OUT ABOUT FINDING OUR SOULMATE.
    2. WE TAKE DATING TOO SERIOUSLY.
    3. WE’VE GOT THE WRONG STANDARDS.
    4. WE FEEL LIKE WE CAN’T DATE OUR FRIENDS.
    5. WE’RE STILL DISCERNING.”

    What is this nonsense? That’s the first thing I thought. It screams of childishness. “Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,” is applicable to many things, including a man’s search for who he is and what he desires. This ‘we’ refrain is a sign that ‘guys’ aren’t thinking for themselves at all, let alone discerning… they are emoting. In this case, they’ll forever be ‘guys,’ never men.

    Soulmate? This sounds like something a woman would say, not a man. A ‘guy,’ yeah, but not a man. The young men of today do need to ‘man up,’ but not by dating or marrying tatoo’d, single moms who claim God. They shouldn’t even be paying attention to those women, unless God Himself calls on them, but I fear most of them could not hear Him if He did, because the signal to noise ratio in this mad world is too much. These ‘guys’ need to look hard in the mirror, find their core, and find some different commentary than what they’re reading about the Bible. The Son of Man had no home, no wife, was alienated from his own family, friends, yet was still direct, knew Himself well. If we are ‘little Christs’ as Christians, it is Him that should resonate at our core, not some silly set of bullet points or looking for a ‘soulmate.’

    The young ‘guys’ of today should all take at least a year sabbatical from the modern, feminized, spineless church. After a time, I suspect many of them, through prayer and studying the Bible through men like Chuck Missler and his many excellent lectures and commentary, would begin to see that it’s not about the nonsense they keep hearing and repeating. The mainstream information available to them, from so many mainstream Christians and secular sources, is toxic.

  10. @ Donal

    Good point on the networking.

    I’m thinking about writing a post that tries to be comprehensive about the issues.

  11. thedeti says:

    “They are not, however, dropping the ball in the way that is implied by the various man-up rants.

    “What the public wants: Christian dudes dating/marrying fat girls and carousel veterans.
    What the Lord wants: Christian dudes taking their religion seriously, seeking better understanding of the Gospel, and seeking to understand God’s commands for them.”

    Yes. But as Dalrock would tell us, modern Christianity believes that these two are one and the same. Christian dudes marrying fat girls and carouselers IS those dudes taking faith seriously, obeying God’s commands, and better understanding of the Gospel. Because to our modern faith guardians, men don’t come into their own as men until they’re married fathers. Because you don’t really understand the CHristian faith until you’ve taken that big marriage step. Because you’re “not really a man” and you haven’t “manned up” until you’ve gotten married to the first woman who will deign to have you. Servant leadership. Dying to self. Love her as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself up for her.

    It’s better for men to do as you said: Get serious about faith and especially understand what the Word REALLY says about dating, mating, marriage, sex, men, women, etc. When men understand that, then, yes,

    “Those who do the latter will find new confidence as they put themselves on the Lord’s side. They will find themselves working harder and feeling less tired; they will feel more sorry for unattractive girls, while feeling less pressure to engage with them romantically. They will feel more confident approaching women they are attracted to, while also becoming pickier. They will find themselves both more obedient and more grateful.”

  12. thedeti says:

    To our modern faith guardians, the problem is that there’s not enough marriage. All we need to do to help these men is to get them married off, and they’ll be OK! All we need to do for our carouselers, our “reformed sluts”, our prodigal daughters who’ve returned to the fold, is get them married off, and they’ll be OK! There’s women who need husbands! There’s (bastard) kids who need dads! Man up and get married! There are oodles and oodles of godly Christian women just waiting around hoping for some strapping young Christian buck to take them to their mansions in the sky!!

    No, the problem is that there aren’t enough true Christian men and women, even among our church’s leadership.

  13. dvdivx says:

    I don’t know if people here are taking the problem seriously. No marriage no babies raised as Christians equals no more Christianity. Granted this is a white problem as you don’t see any of these problems in African Christians. If Christian men in the west don’t find wives and don’t have kids or marry an unbeliever than Christianity in the west dies out at an even faster pace. God said to go out and multiply. Its the first command given after being expelled from Eden. If the church ignores that command at its own peril.

  14. What we are seeing is the creeping of fem-centric/blue-pill thinking of Christian men. Guys aren’t taking dating seriously because young Christian women aren’t taking dating seriously. Christian women aren’t taking dating seriously because they want to extend their Party Year phase (as described by Rational Male) as long as their secular counterparts do. As fuzziewuzziebear alluded to hypergamy above, the problem isn’t that women aren’t being asked out by men, it is that they aren’t being asked by the top-tier men (assuming there are even men like that who are single and in the Church). The low betas/deltas/gammas do approach women in the Church (though awkwardly at times), but since they “don’t count,” women still rationalize that “guys don’t ask us out!”

    By the way, DS, I recently discovered your blog via Dalrock. Great work you have going on here!

  15. Larrup says:

    Why date, when the end (goal) of dating is marriage. And the end (goal) of marriage (for women) is divorce, and taking half of a man’s wealth. So the logical end (goal) of dating (for men) is losing half of their wealth.

    Who wants that?

  16. Bee says:

    @Uncle Maffo,

    “Guys aren’t taking dating seriously because young Christian women aren’t taking dating seriously.”

    Guys aren’t taking dating seriously because young Christian women aren’t taking MARRIAGE & MOTHERHOOD seriously.

    Most young Christian women have not been trained by their families, and their churches to be good wives and good mothers.

  17. @Bee

    “Most young Christian women have not been trained by their families, and their churches to be good wives and good mothers.”

    True, but I think back on my own experience and ask, when was I given guidance on how to be a good husband or how to find a wife? Everything was all about “you better not have sex until you’re married!” but no mention was made of how to make this whole “marriage” thing happen in the first place.

  18. feeriker says:

    “Most young Christian women have not been trained by their families, and their churches to be good wives and good mothers.”

    True, but I think back on my own experience and ask, when was I given guidance on how to be a good husband or how to find a wife? Everything was all about “you better not have sex until you’re married!” but no mention was made of how to make this whole “marriage” thing happen in the first place.

    Again, it is obvious that churchians take marriage and family no more seriously than does the secular culture that they are part of. Thus the results that we now see. Since they are also in furious collective denial of this reality, prepare for it to only get much, much worse.

  19. Pariah says:

    The concept of a “soulmate” is blue pill to the max as well as of pagan origin. Even I used to believe in the concept (though I didn’t call it a “soulmate”, more like “the one that God has for me”, which is what so many young Christians are implicitly taught these days…) That delusion was broken two years ago when I was redpilled by a horrible experience I had with some woman who decided to ghost me, as well as these idiot charismatics who kept on “prophesying” that “she is meant to be your wife.” (I have since then completely withdrawn from the charismatic side of Christianity and gone more towards the traditional Baptist/Lutheran type theologies).
    Correct me if I’m wrong, but dating is a modern concept. I wonder what would happen if a group of redpilled Christians began advocating for arranged marriages? This of course would have to be coupled with a strong emphasis on Biblical male/female roles and an absolute prohibition against divorce.

  20. @ Pariah

    Things not being “Biblical” does not necessarily make them bad or good. A television or computer is neither bad or good but we use them for bad or good.

    In general, mentorship/discipleship, strong marriage laws, chaperoning, and those types of things ensured that marriage was for the most part function in most stable societies. It’s the negative incentives from changing those things that have led to ‘dating’ being fine to terrible.

  21. earl says:

    Yes the obvious thing is they missed the elephant in the room…namely women’s lack of interest and feminism making them think they are goddesses and men are beneath them. And by missing that they come up with weak arguments at best.

    So, young Christian men, why aren’t we dating?

    […]

    1. WE’RE FREAKED OUT ABOUT FINDING OUR SOULMATE.
    2. WE TAKE DATING TOO SERIOUSLY.
    3. WE’VE GOT THE WRONG STANDARDS.
    4. WE FEEL LIKE WE CAN’T DATE OUR FRIENDS.
    5. WE’RE STILL DISCERNING.

    1…no, because if you are a Christian by what it means to be a Christian, Jesus is the ‘soul-mate’. But that term is stupid to begin with and has no basis anywhere except in these mixed up times…it tries to turn a woman into something she’s not and that’s where the freak out comes from. She’s a helpmate.

    2…well if dating is the means to find a wife, I guess that would make it serious. It’s probably better if a guy doesn’t date because he’s not looking for a marriage.

    3. I wish they would elaborate on what standards are ‘wrong’. My standards are that she is a practicing Catholic and actually tries to live as a Catholic woman. My guess is they are probably implying the standards are ‘too high’.

    4. Well depends on how you see the woman. If she’s only going to be a friend and not a potential marriage partner, why date?

    5. Heaven forbid the guy might actually think he’s called to religious life or the single chase life for the kingdom of God. Not to mention how long women are putting off marriage or rejecting the men in their lives who actually show an interest in marriage. Do they ever shame women for taking so much time to figure out she should marry or extend her discerning indefinitely?

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