80/20 rule followup, masculine attractiveness analysis, and how to fix a dysfunctional marriage

There’s been some good discussion in Tinder reaffirmed the 80/20 rule and Donal’s follow up on that post in Just how universal is the 80/20 rule.

Going back to the very first post on my blog Practical ways to improve your attractiveness and desirability for a Christian spouse, which was deleted off of Boundless, there is the general case that for men and women that:

[Women] conclusion: Women your physical beauty will get you in the door, and your personality and spirituality will make him want to keep you. While the latter is the most important, you cannot neglect the former if you want to get married.

[Men] conclusion: Men your masculine personality and confidence will get you in the door, and your ability to lead her spiritually will make her want to keep you. While the latter is the most important, you cannot neglect the former if you want to get married.

Obviously, I didn’t include appearance in the conclusion which does play a significant role as it forms a distinct first impression. First impressions are big. Women generally like tall men, with muscles, with clean style and hair, and good fashion. There are some exceptions based on amount of musculature, hair style and fashion depending on which crowds she runs with, but these are generally the core of an attractive appearance.

If we were to break it down further, it would generally be along the lines like this:

  1. First impression — how tall you are, musculature, hair and style. Your body language and how you act from a distance.
  2. First communication — your body language while you communicate, your charisma, your ability to exude masculine traits (confidence, boldness, strength, manliness, independence, etc.) through your words, and overall create a fun but stimulating aura.
  3. Pre-date — Your consistency in exuding attractiveness in terms of masculinity. May be able to avoid this if you ask her out on a date right away.
  4. Dating and later Relationship — Learning about your other qualities on whether you are a good mate choice or not. For Christians this tends to be faith, good morals and character, how you treat your family, friends, and others, what you’re like as time goes on (if you’re trying to hide anything or just put your best foot forward all of the time), etc.
  5. Engagement and then marriage — If you’re at this point, you’re already a good choice from her perspective. If you’re not, then she’s desperate which means you may be in trouble in the long run.

In general, Christian men fail these steps at all levels.

Christian men have terrible first impressions. They don’t have any sense of style. They don’t work out. They’re afraid to go talk to women (don’t even make the communication). If they do, they definitely do NOT exude masculinity around women in any sense of the word. They’re timid. They don’t know how to flirt or tease a woman. And so on. I don’t really need to go over all of these to show you that most of the men in the Church today do not exhibit any of these traits.

Now to switch gears, I’ll add in Snapper’s questions on the Curse of the romantic Beta here to comment on them. This is important for men to understand.

It is my experience that women love for alpha guys to treat them poorly. This feeds their need for drama and excitement. For some ladies life is ALL drama and ALL excitement, and these types of ladies are screwed up. Think almost any celebrity woman who is around alpha male celebrities.

Why do women want to have fun and be stimulated? Emotions. Generally, women both in the Scripture and society are a protected and provided for class. They don’t have to deal with all of the crap that men slog through to make themselves something in the world. Women HATE dealing with responsibility and bad situations because it brings them down emotionally (likely one of the reasons why God created man to be the head in marriage). On the flip side, women LOVE being emotionally stimulated and having fun. Her worst nightmare is a man who is *gasp* boring. A secular woman and even some Christian women will take the bad boy over the boring, to her detriment.

A man does not have to treat women like trash or create insane drama to be attractive to women. Such things are stimulating to be sure, but they are definitely inclined toward evil because they are destructive. The general thing is that you should be having fun yourself but in a way that builds up the relationship. For example, these are ways you can do it:

  • Have a good sense of humor
  • Tease her about her opinions or style or other things. Avoid sensitive topics (e.g. teasing her about her weight, especially if you know she’s trying to lose weight).
  • Assume that you’re always right when assert make an opinion and make up crazy answers about why she is wrong
  • Fake bully her with your strength. One of the fun things I’ve been doing with my wife is we got on the topic of the “floor is lava” but in the context of “off the sidewalk is lava.” Of course, I started pushing her off the sidewalk for fun, and she’s tried to push me off but can’t since I’m stronger. She’s since gotten me once though.. ugh!
  • Misinterpret things she says. Can also play into humor. “That’s what she said.”
  • Don’t take her seriously when she’s serious and take her seriously when she’s playing. Although you have to be mindful on this as it can turn into real anger.
  • Playful sexism. “You just sit there and look pretty.” I’ve also told one of my friend’s wife to “run along because the men were talking” to good effect. She laughed and faked outrage.

There’s other sources who would say to treat an attractive woman like she’s a bratty little sister, and there is some merit to that. In general, the common thread among all of these is this: (1) they don’t put a woman on the pedestal, and (2) they treat a woman like a woman, not just like a man with boobs.

The reason why most people think that “jerks” are attractive to women is because there are not many Christian men who are attractive. The reason for this is like I’ve said for a long time: bad boys retain their masculinity because they don’t give a crap about what society says about how “toxic” masculinity is whereas the Christian nice guys become feminized because they buy into cultural standards of masculinity (which are evil and the churchians peddle). Who is a woman going to choose? The masculine man or the feminized man? A feminized man is basically just like one of her girl friends. An emotional sponge to pour out her feelings with zero attraction and romantic interest. (And this is where the false notion of the ladder theory comes from).

Now it is my understanding that a guy should be a proper mix of both alpha (drama) and beta (romance) to keep a relationship healthy, though the “proper mix” of yesteryear is much different from modern times. I refer a lot to the movie “In the Heart of the Sea” in which the main character leaves his pregnant wife behind to go to work, on the sea, for two years hunting whale oil. For the time period he seems to be exhibiting a good balance of alpha/beta traits in that he is very well built physically (from his work), he works a dangerous “alpha” job, yet he cares for and loves his wife when he is with her. This gives her a good balance of both drama and romance. While he is away she can worry about what he is doing, who he is with and whether or not he is still alive, and while he is home he spends time with her and likely brings her back various gifts and trinkets from different ports-of-call.

It is also not so much “alpha” and “beta” but “roles” and “responsibilities.” They are not mutually exclusive and do not need to be balanced.

Women are sexually attracted to masculine leaders, protectors and providers. The role of a man in marriage is a masculine leader and protectors and these also display the quintessential masculine traits: independence, boldness, decisiveness, strength, courage, competitiveness, and so on. The responsibilities of a man in marriage is to be a provider, nourish and care for his wife, with sound Christian faith, moral, and character.

The question is how does the beta husband/boyfriend break free from the curse of romance? For the boyfriend its not so difficult. Change. That’s it. If your lady doesn’t like it, let her walk. Its probably better that way anyway because she has already cemented you in her mind as her beta romance fix. Better to find a clean slate and make a new first impression as the alpha jerk who sometimes has a heart of gold.

For husbands its a much more difficult endeavor. Your wife has already cemented you as her beta romance fix, and simply walking away is not a pleasant option. If your a Christian then walking away is sin, as we are commanded not to part from our wives, and to continue to provide for them (1 Timothy 5:8). Christian or not, husbands also have the pleasant fun of looking down the barrel of the modern divorce court system that almost guarantees your wife walks away with half or more of your stuff, your money and possibly your livelihood if she decides to leave because she doesn’t like the “new you”. Like the unmarried, a married man can simply “change”, but he must live with the fallout. His wife may take a liking to his new attitude, but it is more likely that she will not. She wants her alpha drama fix, but not from you. You are her romance fix, and she will not want to give that up. It gives her power to have an expectation of romance from you. The power to administer guilt, which gives her the power to make demands.

As we know, if an attractive man brought a woman roses she would love it, but if an unattractive or creepy man brought her roses she would go “ewww.” This is where the SNL skit about be attractive, don’t be unattractive rings true.

The best way to think about romance in Scriptural terms is the “nourish and cherish” command to husbands from Ephesian 5. Romance doesn’t need to be some elaborate weekend getaway. It doesn’t need to be a love letter or poem. It doesn’t even have to be about getting chocolates or flowers. It does not necessarily have to be about doing anything or saying anything in particular. It’s about showing you’re thinking about her and that you care.

Now, Christian husbands who are stuck need mainly focus on being a better masculine leader and protector. Work out, dress well, clean shaven, be ambitious at work, take the lead at home in the relationship, make decisive decisions, don’t waffle. By being a better masculine leader and protector you are ACTUALLY showing her romance.

Why is this? To understand this, we need to go back further to some old(er) material on this blog.

Generally, if a husband has become complacent into letting his wife run the marriage or not being a proactive masculine leader in the marriage, the wife becomes discontent and unhappy. This is usually accompanied with decreasing physical fitness, getting fat, and overall sloppiness or laziness.

What occurs most of the time is that the wife sees the vacuum of the leadership position and has taken up the position. This happens because the husband has voluntarily abdicated and/or the wife has willingly or unknowingly tried usurp the position. In essence, the wife steps into the authority position and has become your mother instead of your wife. Ever notice how “nagging” sounds exactly like when your mother told you to go clean up your room or do your chores? Yup, same thing. Your mother had authority to go make you do it, but if this happens in the marriage relationship your wife is stepping into the head of the relationship in the vacuum that you created either by abdicating and/or letting her usurp it.

A husband, by taking up his proper roles and responsibilities in the relationship, is actually removing his wife from those positions that she may have unwillingly and/or unwittingly taken. This will cause the stress level of the wife to go down drastically, and it will make her feel more loved. Why is this the case?

If we look at the Scriptures, it is the husbands role and responsibility to love his wife. A wife feels loved by her husband in his proper role. If the wife is in the headship position, she will feel like she is mothering her husband. She is going to feel unloved because her husband is not her husband but in effect her child. Once you reverse the roles to their proper Scriptural place, she will feel loved again because the husband in his proper role carrying out his responsibility. No need for the go out of your way to do housework stuff that is purported as “romance” by the churchians.

It’s really quite simple when you analyze it in the context of the Scriptures, but modern Christians who have been deceived by culture like to do things that do not align with the Word of God.

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16 Responses to 80/20 rule followup, masculine attractiveness analysis, and how to fix a dysfunctional marriage

  1. earlthomas786 says:

    In essence, the wife steps into the authority position and has become your mother instead of your wife.

    That’s the money quote. I’ve seen it quite a bit on socialmediabook….but it’s quite often and with great ease a wife will take a photo of her husband and son(s) and call them ‘my boys’.

    Don’t know if it is subconscious…but I always think ‘her husband is her boy?’

  2. SnapperTrx says:

    “If we look at the Scriptures, it is the husbands role and responsibility to love his wife. A wife feels loved by her husband in his proper role. If the wife is in the headship position, she will feel like she is mothering her husband. She is going to feel unloved because her husband is not her husband but in effect her child. Once you reverse the roles to their proper Scriptural place, she will feel loved again because the husband in his proper role carrying out his responsibility. No need for the go out of your way to do housework stuff that is purported as “romance” by the churchians.”

    The point of my post was that some of these woman, indeed MANY of these women, including Christians, don’t see this as love, but instead have become addicted to the emotional high of romance as love. Though your post makes sense and is right and good, the problem lies in women who no longer comprehend that taking care of business and being fit and masculine are love! Like any druggie their receptors are so burnt out they only get a feeling of ‘love’ from bigger doses of ‘romance’. “Taking care of business” doesn’t really relieve these ladies stress levels because they don’t notice it and thus is it not accounted to their husbands as anything more than “your just doing what needs to be done”. It becomes the baseline, and only things above and beyond account for “love”.

    It takes a strong woman to recognize that she is addicted to romance and to see that her husband waking up every morning at the crack of dawn, working in a mind-numbing or body-breaking job for 8-12 hours before coming home and tending to the things that need to be tended to as loving. It means breaking free of churchian training that instructs women to give men a to-do list as soon as they walk through the door from work, and since they are already fed a steady stream of “moms are the hardest working people working the most difficult job on the planet” this too becomes very difficult for them to comprehend and take action against.

    Your post works very well for the unmarried man, but the married attempting to use your suggestions runs the risk of trouble.

  3. Stephanie says:

    Snapper says “The point of my post was that some of these woman, indeed MANY of these women, including Christians, don’t see this as love, but instead have become addicted to the emotional high of romance as love. Though your post makes sense and is right and good, the problem lies in women who no longer comprehend that taking care of business and being fit and masculine are love!”

    It’s true, DS. My husband was extremely romantic when we were engaged. I mean for the month of Valentine’s, he sent me a love song every single day… lots of gifts and sweet notes, etc… he even wrote me love songs and serenaded me! We made our friends sick with how romantic we were 😀 That level of ridiculous romance can’t really last forever, which is normal 🙂 A lot of men though who act like that in the dating stage, are then held to that crazy high standard throughout marriage, and coupled with their wives becoming MOMS who then start to resent all the hard work of raising kids and running a household, etc. they start to think they need more of that crazy level of romance. I think they’re just unhappy women sadly, and it’s very hard to live with someone who is chronically unhappy.

    We still find tons of romance in the day to day boring-ness of living! 😀 but I don’t hold him to that standard of romance of when we were dating. I think “real love” starts when couples make that transition. I think a lot wives still hold on to childish feelings of wanting to be romanced like they were when they were dating… and then “romance” creates problems.

  4. Stephanie says:

    And this is just anecdotal… but I’ve never seen a couple happier than we are, and people remark on how happy and in love we seem pretty frequently. We’re still “making people sick” and it’s been 10 years.

    But I don’t have resentment over him not being able to hold up the same standard as he did (a lot of “beta” behaviors by the way) as when we weren’t married and dealing with real problems.

  5. @ SnapperTrx

    The point of my post was that some of these woman, indeed MANY of these women, including Christians, don’t see this as love, but instead have become addicted to the emotional high of romance as love. Though your post makes sense and is right and good, the problem lies in women who no longer comprehend that taking care of business and being fit and masculine are love! Like any druggie their receptors are so burnt out they only get a feeling of ‘love’ from bigger doses of ‘romance’. “Taking care of business” doesn’t really relieve these ladies stress levels because they don’t notice it and thus is it not accounted to their husbands as anything more than “your just doing what needs to be done”. It becomes the baseline, and only things above and beyond account for “love”.

    Well, yes and no. It really depends on what type of dysfunctional relationship pattern you have.

    As Dalrock shows in his post, the approach of “get your crap together” works for cases where husband has abdicated headship and/or the wife is inadvertently responding by stepping into the role and not in explicit rebellion.

    If the wife is in explicit rebellion and discontent over it, then that’s another problem altogether. In this case, it’s not so much the romance (which is just a symptom of the problem), but the rebellion and subsequent discontentment that arises fighting against the husband in the first place.

    Also remember, IF the husband is more attractive, the things that he does will more likely be seen as “romantic” rather than “currying favor.” No action is “romantic” without context. It’s true that women can be addicted to romance (e.g. romance novels, emotional porn), but from most of the cases where a husband is attractive the things he does for his wife are going to be romantic to her. He isn’t going to get forced into some sort of choreplay scenario (and part of it may be due to bad expectations as well).

    Your post works very well for the unmarried man, but the married attempting to use your suggestions runs the risk of trouble.

    Each of these needs a slightly different approach, which I think I’m going to write into the book.

    https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2015/11/20/the-varieties-of-dysfunctional-relationship-patterns/

  6. SnapperTrx says:

    *sigh*
    Wishing I had enough motivation to finish mine, though it has nothing to do with the subject at hand!

  7. @ Snapper

    I also threw in an edit about romance. Don’t know if you saw that.

  8. @ Snapper

    Ran across this post on FB:

    http://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a12063822/emotional-labor-gender-equality/

    Pretty much exemplifies what we’re talking about here.

    ~ He’s a “feminist advocate” per her
    ~ She wants him to “just get it”
    ~ He doesn’t understand that doing more chores isn’t going to fix her emotional condition, but rather it’s going to make it worse

    And of course the whole article doesn’t go about fixing the problem. Getting a housecleaner wouldn’t help either. It’s about how to justify “nagging” and crappy attitude of the woman while making him a slave to her feelings.

    I feel sorry for the man.

  9. SnapperTrx says:

    I’ll take your word for it. I saw the image of the glove and it just pissed me off. We all know that if the husband had done this he would be derided as uncaring, unloving and a horrible person. I wouldn’t even know what to do for this guy until his wife left him. Only then would he be open to hearing something different than what he has been told his whole life.

  10. Stephanie says:

    Sad article… but I think **a lot** more women feel that way than people expect, especially after they become moms. I see it in most of the women I know, this constant feeling like they’re never on top of housework and resenting it and letting that affect their marriage.

    There’s no way for a man to “vet” if his future wife will be actually happy doing all the necessary things a wife needs to do, especially when sometimes they’re hormones change after childbirth. It’s like the man is either really really lucky he found a woman who is truly kind to him and doesn’t resent the poopy diapers, endless laundry of multiple kids, and doing it with a truly happy heart.

    😦 Sad.

  11. Stephanie says:

    Meant to say:

    It’s like the man is either really really lucky he found a woman who is truly kind to him and doesn’t resent the poopy diapers, endless laundry of multiple kids, and doing it with a truly happy heart, OR he ends up with a wife who grows resentful overtime and lashes out at him and demands a cleaning service or help to get by.

    But she will never truly be happy, even with the cleaning service, because from what I’ve seen from women like this, they’ll just move on to the **next** thing that makes them unhappy and want him to do that for them.

  12. Stephanie says:

    “Then I tried to gingerly explain the concept of emotional labor: that I was the manager of the household, and that being manager was a lot of thankless work. ”

    ^^This is where she’s getting it all wrong. It’s sacrificial love that should be motivating her to keep their household running well, doing the yucky or sometimes boring work, taking care of sick kiddos and making endless amounts of food lol. She should be doing it with a glad heart and trying to find the joy in it, but things like that aren’t really taught anymore to wives and mothers, even in church.

    This past week 2 of our 3 kids were sick for 5 days… in one day alone, there were 12 liquid poop – diarrhea like diapers! I was alone most of the time to handle all of it, along with regular household stuff and the oldest with his homework and reading work. Yes, it was horrible, yes it felt so overwhelming at times, but my husband and I also were able to laugh about how awful it was, and he teased me the next morning that I **ONLY** had 7 more years to go until our youngest would be in elementary.

    He’s talking about the next child that I haven’t even had yet!!!!! 😀 And we’ll be practically married 20 years by that “only” time lol! But in the midst of constant liquid poop for 5 days we were able to lovingly joke about the future even though it’s clear it’s going to be mostly me dealing with 7 more years of liquid poop, scrubbing floors, lots and lots of laundry, and managing the household.

    I understand and am sympathetic to the women don’t want to get married young like we did because it’s hard and you have to learn to be self-less and how to laugh when things go incredibly wrong. Women are not really raised to handle that kind of stuff for years on end with a good attitude 😦

  13. feeriker says:

    Getting a housecleaner wouldn’t help either. It’s about how to justify “nagging” and crappy attitude of the woman while making him a slave to her feelings.

    I feel sorry for the man.

    There’s probably no salvaging this guy’s marriage at this point, short of God intervening directly and performing a miracle by giving the wife an “attitude transplant.”

    There’s no way for a man to “vet” if his future wife will be actually happy doing all the necessary things a wife needs to do, especially when sometimes they’re hormones change after childbirth. It’s like the man is either really really lucky he found a woman who is truly kind to him and doesn’t resent the poopy diapers, endless laundry of multiple kids, and doing it with a truly happy heart.

    True, there is no ABSOLUTE certainty in the vetting process, but the fact is that her behavior (as in how she reacts to certain situations and her attitude toward certain aspects of life) will go a long way in predicting how she will behave when things get “challenging” as a wife.

    The problem, methinks, is that most men simply don’t vet their prospective wives very thoroughly, if at all. If they do, most realize after a while that so few women are really “wife material” that their only option is to “settle” for the “least bad” candidate there is. NOT a winning strategy or a prescription for a happy, long-lasting marriage, but it is what it is. Many men simply cannot face the thought of being alone for the rest of their lives, so they grit their teeth, hold their noses, and pray that they can at least TOLERATE marriage to a profoundly unhappy and contentious woman who, hopefully, won’t self-destruct or destroy him and their marriage (at least not while any young children are produced).

    Full disclosure: I was exactly such a man before my red-pill awakening and I paid very dearly for my decision to wed a women who, I should have seen with eyes wide open, was absolutely NOT marriage material at all.

  14. Stephanie says:

    I’m sorry Feeriker 😦 it’s unfortunate that I think it’s our culture that makes it so easy for women (and maybe men too?) to be chronically unhappy even though we’ve been graced and given more than most of us could ever have asked for.

    Really all these women need to do is realize how good they really have it. Some people have truly hard, devastating lives, seeing that and getting some humility that you **don’t** deserve an easy life, goes a heck of a long way.

  15. earl says:

    “Then I tried to gingerly explain the concept of emotional labor: that I was the manager of the household, and that being manager was a lot of thankless work. ”

    ^^This is where she’s getting it all wrong. It’s sacrificial love that should be motivating her to keep their household running well, doing the yucky or sometimes boring work, taking care of sick kiddos and making endless amounts of food lol. She should be doing it with a glad heart and trying to find the joy in it, but things like that aren’t really taught anymore to wives and mothers, even in church.

    I agree. There’s a lot about sacrificial love that can be thankless work…but receiving thanks shouldn’t be the most important motivation about it.

    That being said…I still make a point to thank my mom or my friend’s wives when I visit their home and they do things like make a meal for me. A spirit of gratitude is what defeats a spirit of entitlement.

  16. Mark says:

    most men simply don’t vet their prospective wives very thoroughly, if at all

    Most men don’t know how. And if you told them they’d gasp in horror at your “misogyny”.

    @DeepStrength

    I’ve really enjoyed your most recent articles. You’re clearly finding your feet as a writer and your ability to express your insights is developing well.

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