Gunner’s post on the great divide:
Of all the divisions and disagreements I’ve seen over the last decade in the Manosphere, the biggest is one that is rarely mentioned: the guys who’ve hit rock bottom and the guys who haven’t.
One one side is Mister Success with all the answers, the jet-set Lothario idly wondering which country to sample next, the bureaucrat-in-denial (hello, Pastor!) who managed to follow an Assigned Life Path to a gilded cage. The popular, wealthy and sheltered.
One the other side is Mister Frivorced who tried all the answers, the hard worker frozen out of the “global marketplace”, the poor bastard bastard who never had a father to teach him right from left. The unsexy, unworthy and unwanted.
The former do not know sympathy. In their view, if you suffer then you deserve to suffer, somehow. Failure is something you shrug at, write off your taxes and walk away from because you have three other irons in the fire.
The latter understand. Suffering is a part of life. Some failures are permanent. They’ll push you as much as the former but they do it because they’ve been there. Because helping you helps them come to terms with their own experiences. Because they want others to succeed where they didn’t. That difference in attitude is life-changing.
Generally, I consider there to be 4:
- Mr Successes
- Frivorced or struggling marriages
- Average single clueless guy
- Incels
Frivorced was at least decent enough with women that at least one woman wanted to marry him. Average single clueless guy sometimes gets interest and/or dates from women, but has no clue when they don’t like him anymore and end the relationship. The incels don’t get the time of day from women and are generally considered creepy.
These are generally the 4 tiers of men that encompass the SMP/MMP.
- 8-10s — Mr Successes that get all of the attention when single and have wives that adore them
- 5-7s — Frivorced or struggling and still married but don’t know how to long term relationship
- 4-6s — the average clueless guy who sometimes get dates and relationships but can’t sustain an long term relationship
- 1-3s — the Incels that are unwanted and ignored
It seems these days that most of the Incels have given up completely on women and are MGTOW.
Personally, I was your average single clueless guy.
Taking advice from Mr Successes is generally always a bad idea just like taking advice from women about how to date and/or marry and/or maintain a relationship with a woman. They hold too many blind spots about their own nature to reliably suggest good information for the rest of the population. It’s sort of like the celebrity world; everyone already likes them and caters to them so they don’t know what it’s like for the general joe who is mostly invisible or ignored.
Anyway, I’m still writing the book, and it’s mainly addressing to #2 and #3 categories obviously. The Incels who choose MGTOW that are Christian mainly just need to focus on God per 1 Cor 7. I’m hoping to have a finished rough draft soon.
Christianity and masculinity 
Hi DS and regular readers, all the blessings of the Lord for the new year.
With regard to #1 Mr Success. Often these guys are second generation christian, and got off to a good start from their parents, especially if they are clerics. These guys have kept themselves from evil and reap the benefits, they are prone to fall into the trap of excess wealth, and I have encountered these guys in the past.
Usually they sympathise with the frivorced types but they are clueless beyond their own church’s policy on the subject, so they will point you to a counsellor, and hope you will be ok. This is usually a bad idea.
#s 2, 3 and 4 would do well to consider MGTOW, and just make the necessary changes to: Man Going Gods Own Way MGGOW, and ignore the women if possible.
If it’s not possible then strap yourself in and double down on red pills before entering the MMP.
P.S. Post some chapters online for discussion before you publish. I know much of the content has been discussed already but rehashing will benefit the newcomers.
DS, You’ve made an important distinction. I plan to mark my future posts according to which audience it is best suited towards. This will help readers identify posts that are helpful towards building whichever Frame they have chosen.
Hosea 4:6 ESV
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge;
because you have rejected knowledge,
I reject you from being a priest to me.
And since you have forgotten the law of your God,
I also will forget your children.
The interesting thing about the Manosphere is that, in the course of a few years, it’s nailed down most of the functional aspects of human sexuality in ways never actually understood. Things have been broken down pretty thoroughly to the point we understand good chunks of the biochemistry involved, however prioritization and simplicity still aren’t laid down yet. So, let’s take a quick crack at that.
For a Man, everything begins with their Masculinity. The two core aspects to that are: Physical Health and a lack of Shame for imposing your Will. Everything else follow from those two.
Without your health under control, you can’t project your Will. With improper restraint on your Will, you cannot impose your Will upon anything. Health under control will give you space to unwind the issues around Will. You will work them in tandem, but the core starts from how you walk down the street.
My argument for the centrality of Health is that if you utterly suppress a Man’s testosterone (and general endocrine system function), he’ll have almost no ability to affect change within or around himself. It’ll normally crush his confidence by sheer lack of T alone. This makes functioning health necessary before all other considerations.
“Imposing your Will” is everything else, but it’s the core skill/state that we’re discussing. It can be as simple as moving a chair or picking up a cup, but the Action is to impose upon existence what you Will. The “Details” specific application and proper Control of that imposition.
LG, that’s a great way to put it. I really didn’t start building my frame in earnest until my T levels got above 400. And now that I can pull 400lbs off the floor on deadlift, the crap that the world seems constantly toss at me seems a lot more manageable.
@White Guy:
Yup. When you can roll through your head, “should I maybe just toss this problem across the room?”, it completely changes your outlook on a lot of situations. Further, normal T levels also means your stress response to a number of things is lower and the effort to expend a lot of energy comes easier.
Good Health = Life much easier.
I’m a pretty bright guy, but I’m actually impressed with that burst of insight last night with that break down. I’ve now reduced all of this into the foundational principles. Or reduced it all to the lowest possible distinctions, depending on how you view things.
All of the PSALM aspects signal to a percentage blend of those two concepts, but it also is a lot easier to explain.
Thank you for the link!
This great divide can also be applied to women who marry the boring betas (or embarrassing betas), and then proceed to ridicule him publicly for the rest of their marriage for her inability to cross that divide into more desirable men.
See Roissy’s latest on Female Hypergamy and Male (supposed) Hypergamy
http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2018/01/05/is-male-hypergamy-real-no/
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Thanks LG, I have my moments, sometimes. What is SO frustrating is that while building up myself in the gym I had a major setback, I tore my pec tendon off on bone on while doing sets on the bench and my concern (really fear) is I will slip back into where I was. Surgery is on Wednesday (prayers appreciated), and I am determined to get back to where I was because I know my LIFE depends on it.
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