Southern baptists call off the culture war and…

From here. I thought it was good at first:

Southern Baptists Call Off the Culture War

America’s largest Protestant group moves to cut ties with the Republican Party and reengage with mainstream culture.

Removing political ties is generally a good thing for Christians. Both parties have massive amounts of sinful behavior, so it’s a good idea not to get caught up in “supporting” one of them.

But then I saw this:

To enact this change, young Baptists nominated 45-year-old pastor J.D. Greear from North Carolina to be president of the denomination. In a campaign video, Greear called for “a new culture and a new posture in the Southern Baptist Convention.”

Refusing to cede power without a fight, fundamentalist Baptists nominated Ken Hemphill as an opposition candidate. But Greear won with nearly 70 percent of the vote, becoming the youngest SBC president in 37 years.

Greear has promised to lead the denomination down a different path, which, he has said, must include efforts both to repent of a “failure to listen to and honor women and racial minorities” and “to include them in proportionate measures in top leadership roles.” If the meeting in Dallas is any indication, his vision is resonating with a large number of the next wave of Baptist leaders.

So SBC has fallen to the culture over the Scripture. I’d avoid them.

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20 Responses to Southern baptists call off the culture war and…

  1. Tork says:

    Thanks for reminding me why I left the church 3 years ago.

    My pastor at the time literally said “white surpreamacy” was of the devil

  2. SnapperTrx says:

    Paul warned us.

  3. Don Quixote says:

    Doubling down on their error will ensure more of the same…
    More confusion.
    More divorce.
    More feminised men, and more masculine women.
    More insufferable sermons {{{{shudder}}}

    I speculate he got such a majority of the votes because of his tolerance towards feminist issues.
    Woe unto the man that solicits the favours of cows of Bashan.
    He shall become their bitch.

  4. Don Quixote says:

    P.S. Great to see Deep Strength on reddit/truechristian/.
    Keep up the good work, knowing your labour in the Lord is not in vain.

  5. “Removing political ties is generally a good thing for Christians.” I disagree with this sentiment, but the reality is that how Christians should engage with politics is radically different than anything that currently happens right now.

    “a new culture and a new posture in the Southern Baptist Convention.” – Instant anyone says that, you can generally assume what they mean is giving into the World. Flowery words filled with poison are always such a give away.

  6. @ Tork

    Well, he’s not wrong that white supremacy is of the devil. Any group that claims “supremacy” is not demonstrating the fruits of the Spirit toward their neighbors.

  7. @ LG

    “Removing political ties is generally a good thing for Christians.” I disagree with this sentiment, but the reality is that how Christians should engage with politics is radically different than anything that currently happens right now.

    True. To be fair, Christians should be lobbying for the issues that the Bible supports and not a particular party… though this can often be done away from politics most of the time.

  8. @DS:

    To an extent, the issue normally comes down to Power and “Ease”. They always end up mixing systems to better serve the interests of those currently at the top of whatever hierarchy is present. Christians end up becoming subject to either secular or church law, when there should be explicitly two separate ones.

    It’s a long discussion on its own, and the records of Christian societies have always pretty clearly shown keeping the right stuff separate becomes a big problem. Though the reality is that every system of Man will be “gamed” to the point of corruption.

    Still, most of these issues could have been avoided with the proper application of executing witches & warlocks. We now have a pretty good, though arrived at separately, understanding of what drives some people to be so destructive of their own societies. The harsh truth is the only way to respond to them if utter removal from the situation. Depending on local realities for the exact nature of that removal, but, in most places, it’s pretty clear how you should handle it.

  9. Jonadab-the-Rechabite says:

    Let the woman worship commence in earnest. Perhaps they can even write some ditties about the goodness of whore of Babylon.

  10. ballista74 says:

    >So SBC has fallen to the culture over the Scripture. I’d avoid them.

    There’s not a lot to be said on something like this that hasn’t been said a million times. I know that’s part of the reason why I stopped blogging regularly (I do still blog though). One can say things like the above (I’ve been pretty much since 2012, but have noted it has occurred for centuries before hand) so many times until they become completely bored, with the crowd needing to listen just not doing it. I could say this of the worldiness of churches, the Satanic marriage that has replaced God’s plan for it, you name it.

    People cry around about problems, but won’t do the necessary things to repent before the Lord. Fact universal is that there can only be one Master, and men run off following other men, women, government, and the like has been rampant from the beginning. It’s not too revolutionary to say that following Scripture hasn’t ever been tried in (almost) the entire history of the Church. The SBC is only doing what churches have been doing for centuries, seeking to please the world as opposed to God. I could say that of almost every reddit group, every Christian chat, every Christian forum, the music, you name it. It’s rare to find God-honoring things, and getting even more rarer.

    The prescription is pretty clear for what’s been happening, but people won’t do it despite all their complaining (Hint: 2 Corinthians 6:14-18). There will come the time very soon when following that piece of Scripture will become incumbent to one’s salvation. Fact is one can never affect change on these wicked things when they are part of the system. The profane can not eradicate the profane.

  11. ballista74 says:

    >To be fair, Christians should be lobbying for the issues that the Bible supports and not a particular party… though this can often be done away from politics most of the time.

    This is why the whole 501c3 issue that I talked about on my old blog was important. So many churches have pledged fealty to the government via naming themselves as these entities as opposed to claiming Christ’s ownership. Then, the Johnson Amendment effectively stifled the churches from there. Before 501c3 “churches”, churches could speak on what they want from the pulpit without reservation, including anything considered political.

    Again it’s really amazing how blind people are to all this wickedness going on.

  12. SirHamster says:

    > Well, he’s not wrong that white supremacy is of the devil. Any group that claims “supremacy” is not demonstrating the fruits of the Spirit toward their neighbors.

    White nationalism and white supremacy are deliberately lumped together to create confusion.

    “White” (American, English, French, etc) nationalism has its place. But white supremacy is a pride that will be humbled, as Jewish supremacy was in the time of Jesus until even now.

  13. @ballista74

    Great to see ya around!

    It’s structure & assumptions. Very few are capable of abstracting far enough from their current situation to do it. I reference Chronicles 1 & 2 a lot for this. Almost no one “took down the high places”. At the time of the writing of Kings 1 & 2 + Chronicles 1 & 2, in the forms we know them, the core problem the Kings would never addressed is quite plain. They wouldn’t deal with the one, key thing giving great affront to the Lord.

    In very much the same vein, the modern “church” can’t understand how it has been trapped into serving Babylon, yet they will rationalize that they serve the Lord. Rather than “be wise as serpents and innocent as doves”, they very much go with “as wise as sheep and as innocent as serpents”. That compounds every issue, but it’s also the reason why people keeping trying to “make work” what everyone is doing. They’re trapped in the “Fool Cycle”.

    In the basic analysis, the entire structure of any of the modern Church types doesn’t work. And I do mean in the objective sense. The church has, historically, rapidly expanded when no one had any clue what they were actually doing, but were acting on Faith & a little bit of coordination. This reality, along with many others, explains the core problem. A Church can only operate up to a certain size. Which is between 80-100 people. After that, it needs to split. Rise & repeat.

    Further, the “Pastor as Center Cog” system is also a failure. That isn’t what Jesus told us to go & do. We are to be witnesses & make disciples. Which means the entirety of the way they coordinate the Church is incorrect. A “church service” would be Worship, Teaching & breaking bread. Discipleship doesn’t “scale vertically”. You can’t teach Faith in a seminar-style course. It’s 1-2 people you are mentoring, finishing their training, then bringing others on.

    Though the deepest high place that no one wants to touch is really subtle. Churches have to be able to fail & be cut off. The RCC has been trapped in this problem for 1000 years. The RCC had failed by 1050 AD, which is why the Great Schism happened, and they’ve been stuck playing the “Empire of God” ever since. You can predict most of Romans’ actions in the exact way you’d predict a nominal empire would operate. Protestants get a little version of this because the central Pastor eventually dies, which is what normally means the end of most churches. (Which is notably the problem, as well: the “church” is about a Man and not about God.)

    There’s a reality to understanding problems. We’ve only really begun to grasp how deep the problems go, which means we haven’t yet built out solutions. That starts soon, but there’s been a lot of faithful Men in the last few hundred years that could see the problem. None was ever to grasp the totality because to understand the Conspiracy of Evil against them was, likely, beyond their ability to gather information about. The Devil plays the longest con of all, and we’re the victims of hundreds of years of it.

  14. Back to continue my explanation.

    The reason churches need to remain quite small hinges on a pretty basic human realities. You only trust so many people. You can’t just have a blanket level of “trust” of a huge group, otherwise you will be played & destroyed. The larger the group, the more room for evil to come in & destroy the place. (This also counts as the Biblical Argument against Gun Control. Same operational realities.)

    If you keep it small, with the Deacons running the show, building up everyone to split in the 10-20 year future, you create an actual environment where trust can be sustained in the physical space. The Orthodox do, somewhat, right now, but that’s because they can leverage their nationalistic aspects.

    The important part about this approach is that it doesn’t really matter which of the 3 major branches of Christianity is involved. You can run any church by a “small size/split at X size” system, if you reject the desire to build massive buildings. I’ve yet to find where God has asked us to produce architecture to His name, since the end of the Temple period.

  15. ballista74 says:

    @Looking Glass
    An interesting read to be sure. Honestly, I rather find people more blind to what is in Scripture than it is to do with anything else. This is partly because they have never “put off the old self” or found death willingly to take part in the resurrection. They still come with their own thoughts, ways, feelings, and so forth. Then God gets molded into each one’s own image and worshiped in each one’s image – what I referred to as The Personal Jesus.

    This isn’t a new phenomena, as you point out. They rationalize that God is okay with what they are doing, so there is no need to change on their end. They dance over Scriptures that clearly call them to examine themselves and repent. For example, 2 Chronicles 7:14: “If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.” I hear this quoted incessantly by people lamenting the problems of the nation (which have only multiplied), but they can never see the phrases “humble themselves” and “turn from their wicked ways” – and will attack those that do. The United States is under impending judgment as a nation for the failure to do this. The whole of Western Civilization is under judgment as well for radically turning away from the Lord God to their own wishes – and have piled up their sins as high as the sun.

    As you point out, this pattern is almost from the beginning. The Church was always meant to consist of the people and not of rituals, rites, priests, programs, or facilities (John 4:21-24). Scripture countermands this clearly as well (Stephen’s speech, specifically Acts 7:48-50, among other places), but this is another thing people are blind to. The Church was always meant to be people interacting on a spiritual basis, people getting to know each other, and functioning with one another. The 50-60 “one another” commands illustrate this. I’d argue that even 80-100 is too big, given that we are told repeatedly that they met in houses (how many houses do you know that hold that many?). Besides, how many people can you realistically know well enough to perform all the “one anothers” faithfully with? I’d go with the answer Jesus gave us: 12.

    Once the “man of God” became common, the building of empires in this man of God’s name became incumbent, because worship turned into worship of this man and what he has built rather than of God. For the record, this is true Phariseeism. History tells us that The Church, by and large strayed about 100 years after the final apostles we read of in Scripture. Consequently, there is the belief that churches or The Church saves when neither have saved a single soul. Of course, without God, these churches have lost their power. (What it means to be “holy” is another thing that people are blind to in Scripture, I’ve found.)

    I’ve come to believe that a lot of the curses of Revelation have already come, simply due to all the conflict (I believe the End Times are nigh given what I’ve seen in the world and the churches, but that’s another digression). Specifically in this case, I believe Catholicism to be the White Horse (note Zechariah identifies them as “those the LORD hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth.”). Notably, that spirit has choked out the churches of every stripe.

    But the Lord will always leave a remnant to His Name…

  16. Swanny River says:

    I won’t try to add to what has been said so well in the previous comments, other than to say I agree. Therefore, I want to look at the SBC role, that is, 70% of them want this and 100% of them think they are going towards God and away from the world. I wish some of the voters would comment here because I am very interested in hearing and reading their responses to the post and comments. No engagement though, which demonstrates their superficiality which probably helps explain why they think the way they do.
    In regards to politics, I have no problem with it and am refreshed when I hear black pastors talk and go ss far as telling their congregation which candidates to support. I’m not sure if they do that because they are clueless and low IQ and are ignorant that white pastors don’t do that, or maybe they know and don’t care.

  17. @Swanny River:

    They can do it because they tell their congregants to vote for the Left. If they did it for the Right, they’d have the local government all over them. That’s what the “Johnson Amendment” was about: a tool to suppress Christianity activities with regards to the government, allowing for the complete take-over of the forces of Babylon.

  18. ballista74 says:

    @Swanny River
    It could be that these churches are not incorporated as 501c3 entities. Doing this is where the power and control is gained by the government – effectively in doing that, the government gains ownership of that entity and the “trustees” run it. A “President”, “Vice President”, “Secretary”, “Treasurer” or other positions does not exist in Scripture! Any one of these entities, by virtue of being a government creation, must uphold public policy, whatever that may be, at the threat of losing their resources. It’s not so much as Babylon taking over these entities, it is that these leaders have willingly given it over. Remember “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” (the church, Matt 16:18), but the Church can sure walk away from the Lord. The vast super-majority of them in the United States have.

    This means that they can not preach against “settled” governmental policy – i.e. they can not stand against abortion, no-fault divorce, the family court system, and a whole host of other things that Scripture speaks to. 501c3 is what suppresses Christian activities that run counter the government. The “Johnson Amendment” (notably instated by Lyndon B. Johnson when a minister spoke against his candidacy for mayor, derailing it – he remembered this when he later got a Senate seat) eliminates political speech in 501c3 entities, meaning anything political a preacher may know or may say in light of God’s word about the fruit of a particular candidate will equally threaten that status.

    Notably as Looking Glass notes, enforcement of these IRS statutes always varies depending on the political tastes of those in power. But they are generally very lightly enforced to give the sheeple the impression that all of this is okay and give ample room to deny what all of this means.

  19. Wayne says:

    It took about 800 years for the Catholic church to become corrupted. It only took 450 for the Protestants.

  20. @Wayne

    About 300 years for both sides, but the old world allow for certain destruction to take a very long to drag everyone else down to their level. Modern communications allows for much faster degradation.

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