Sex difference in evaluating attractiveness or no?

On Dalrock’s recent post, one thing stood out to me in Mandy Hale’s comment:

I never meet guys. Like…literally NEVER. A few years ago I felt like I could simply walk into a room and command the attention of the men in the room. I had no trouble meeting men. I got hit on regularly. But something changed along the way and that’s not my experience anymore. I suspect it was more an internal change than an external one, as I honestly think I physically look better now than I did ten years ago.

I’ve had this conversation with my wife before about the attractiveness of some women we encounter. There’s been several times where she’ll say an older woman is very attractive, and I don’t see it at all compared to a younger woman. This is not taking into account physical body changes: if a woman was obese and then suddenly got in shape she’ll definitely become more attractive. However, objectively her youthfulness, fertility and facial attractiveness all decline as she ages.

A woman in her 30s can go from “unattractive” (overweight/obese) to “attractive for her age” (athletic/fit curvy), but she is not as objectively attractive as an average young non-obese young 20 something. Yes, she could be in greater physical shape and have better curves and maybe even better facial features, but she’s still not as attractive as the younger woman. Youthfulness is one of the things that is very attractive to men. This is a fact that is fairly apparent to the vast majority of men, but it seems to be the case that women don’t see it as readily as men do.

In women don’t really understand male attraction, it also seemed to the case that women don’t really understand the power of their own waist-to-hip ratio has on their overall attractiveness in conjunction with the clothes (hint: dresses and skirts) they wear. That’s why the girl who lost weight went from like a 2-4 range ish to a 7-9ish on most scales whereas most women would’ve said her lost weight only bumped her up to the 5-7 range at most. The sex appeal comes from the lost weight on the face and the curves that make a man go “wow.”

It seems to me that this would be potentially another sex difference that sabotages women’s efforts to land a man. Unless there is a more drastic physical change, no woman is more attractive with age (or even if she is then her face at least won’t show it for the most part). I suppose that some women “get it” when approaching the wall, but it seems that others do not.

I’d be curious to hear a weigh in from the men and women on if this is the case and why.

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59 Responses to Sex difference in evaluating attractiveness or no?

  1. Sharkly says:

    Some women, with good genetics, age OK, but most do not. But it isn’t just their external beauty that withers so quickly. Due to our horrid Feminist society, most women spoil and rot on the inside, quickly becoming soiled, vile, and unworthy of any decent man. While men usually mature and mellow into better people.

  2. Ame says:

    i agree that women do not ‘get’ what men are attracted to.

    however, i have found it interesting over the years that people, in general, are definitely attracted to a beautiful heart that radiates through one’s face and actions and disposition.

    i have been quite surprised when men have said i was attractive past age 45. they were men in my age group and older. they weren’t doing a comparison thing – of course a younger woman would have been more attractive. and they were in benign circumstances where a definitive comment was offered but definitely not solicited.

    when we get close to, hit, and pass The Wall, we better have something more than the physical beauty of our youth to define our beauty. taking the best possible care of our physical bodies … maintaining our femininity, giving attention to feminine hair (long rather than short, and healthy), dressing well and appropriate for our bodies and age, having developed a genuine smile as our ‘default’ expression and disposition, kindness, respect, generosity, etc.

    and … a peaceful acceptance of who we are now and who we will never be again; a contentment. and an appreciation for the beauty of youth without any jealousy or bitterness.

    it is wise to teach younger girls/women that, truly, youth is temporary. begin develop characteristics that are beautiful when young and continue to build upon them. do not rely solely on your physical beauty for anything in life. don’t ignore your physical health and beauty, but also do not be limited by it. and also use your physical beauty wisely; cherish it, protect it, save the best parts of it for your Husband.

  3. One issue is lumping “attractiveness” into a single term. What Ame is running into is the difference between physical attraction (“baby making desire”) and the desire to talk to the person later (“pleasantness”, I suppose we can call it). As Men age and deal with the stress of life, physical attraction matters but the lack of stress matters more with time.

    As for Women not understanding the situation, that’s pretty easy to predict. Women gain male attention right as they begin thinking like Adults. I don’t think I’ve mentioned this here, but beyond the neurological changes that happen with puberty, functionally parts of the personality and the way your memory affects your thinking is “reset”. In practice, you have a physically developing adult with zero actual experience dealing with adult thoughts. (I figured this out as a way to understand how so many friends seemed to suddenly get really stupid, comparatively, when we hit our teenaged years.) As a direct result, a Woman has spent her entire adult “thought life” getting male attention for simply existing until their minds hit the final development point around age 25, which is cresting over from their peak physical attractiveness period.

    This is the reason The Wall gets talked about so much. Most Women only really appreciate what’s happening after it’s far too late to actually do anything about it. This is the natural result of never having to work for something. You see the exact same thing happen to plenty of children of wealthy families. The money is just “there” without any physical or mental appreciation for how much work is needed. For a Woman, male attention is there until the day it isn’t. Then they start writing for websites to complain about it.

  4. Jack says:

    Here in Asia, most women are acutely aware that their sex appeal is almost wholly dependent on being physically thin and sweet tempered. One’s height, skin tone, WHR, and bust size are dependent on genetics, but they know being thin and fit will maximize whatever figure God gave them. Many women don’t care enough to stay slim, but there are just as many other women who have the habit of only eating one meal a day, and vegetarianism is popular. Both are forms of continual fasting. Fasting in itself carries many physical and spiritual benefits.
    In addition, compared to younger women, older women tend to have more emotional maturity, smoother social skills, and a much better handle on their feminine soft power. A lot of Westerners believe that Asian women age like wine because of genetics, and I suppose this is true to some extent on a case-by-case basis. But in fact, Asian women make a daily habit of staying on top of their appearance, much better than their Western counterparts.
    Because of these factors, I know many Asian women in their 50’s and 60’s who are still sexually hot and stimulating, and it is mostly because of their emotional maturity, light-hearted temperament, staying thin by fasting, dressing well, and staying active.
    Sure, older women cannot compare to the fertile, innocent-faced, supple bodied energy of a younger chick, but the methods described above are (usually) sufficient to keep their husbands from chasing younger tail.

  5. Bruce says:

    Men are attracted to two things, looks and niceness/kindness/sweetness -call it whatever you like.

    The so-called alpha men will sometimes tolerate lack of niceness for optimized looks (pretty face, ideal body shape, etc.). They’ll trade personality for “hotness.” Of course, these are the same guys that can swap out for a different girl later so I guess that plays into their strategy.

    I think most so-called beta men (the middle +/- 1 standard deviation or whatever, i.e. the majority) want a girl that passes the threshold where she is attractive to him. If she is attractive enough, then personality (kindness, etc.) is what matters. At this point, at the attraction threshold, a good heart matters much more than looks.

    Even if a woman is unattractive, personality can increase her attractiveness. There are two obese girls where I work. One (the less obese one) is cold, nasty, has visible tats, etc. The (considerably) more obese one is friendly, smiles, laughs, is amiable. If I were forced to marry one of them, I’d pick the more obese one in a heartbeat. At least you could love her heart, personality, etc. even if you weren’t physically attracted to her. The mean, nasty, fat girl offers you NOTHING you desire. Not loveable on the inside or outside.

  6. Bruce says:

    I think Jack’s comment supports mine. Most men (the “beta male” middle) find most women who are young and thin, physically attractive. Not to be mean but yes, there are a few women with exceptionally ugly faces or who have tall, big-boned genetics who we don’t find physically attractive.
    In some ways it is easier to be a young woman. All they really have to do is not-be-fat which is a default human characteristic-just don’t eat too much. Of course, if they think they are entitled to chase a top-level-attractiveness male, then of course they have to do and be more.

  7. elspeth says:

    i have been quite surprised when men have said i was attractive past age 45. they were men in my age group and older. they weren’t doing a comparison thing – of course a younger woman would have been more attractive. and they were in benign circumstances where a definitive comment was offered but definitely not solicited.

    My experience mirrors this, and I am in my late 40’s. A guy was getting too friendly for my comfort recently while I was just reading a book, waiting for my kid to finish her lesson. He was a very decent looking, 40-ish-year-old man. I took my left hand from under the book I was reading, and the conversation politely wrapped up as he wished me a good day.

    My husband says that most all men find younger women objectively more attractive from a purely sexual standpoint, but the older he gets, the more he sees the attractiveness in a woman who looks good for her age and has, in his words, “a certain kind of energy”. Men evolve over time, probably more so than women.

    But all things being equal, an older woman is nowhere near as attractive as a younger woman. It’s foolish to pretend otherwise.

  8. elspeth says:

    i have been quite surprised when men have said i was attractive past age 45. they were men in my age group and older. they weren’t doing a comparison thing – of course a younger woman would have been more attractive. and they were in benign circumstances where a definitive comment was offered but definitely not solicited.

    My experience mirrors this, and I am in my late 40’s. A guy was getting too friendly for my comfort recently while I was just reading a book, waiting for my kid to finish her lesson. He was a very decent looking, 40-ish-year-old man. I took my left hand from under the book I was reading, and the conversation politely wrapped up as he wished me a good day.

    My husband says that most all men find younger women objectively more attractive from a purely sexual standpoint, but the older he gets, the more he sees the attractiveness in a woman who looks good for her age and has, in his words, “a certain kind of energy”. Men evolve over time, probably more so than women.

    But all things being equal, an older woman is nowhere near as attractive as a younger woman. It’s foolish to pretend otherwise.

  9. elspeth says:

    @ DS:

    I think I might have a few duplicate comments in your spam bin.

  10. seventiesjason says:

    So why did God made some people “beautiful” or :”attractive” and some ugly?????? To teach us all a lesson about his love?

    No, he doesn’t exist and could care less about any of this. Hence why he isn’t brought up in this topic. Darwin all the way here!

  11. @ seventiesjason

    God created men and women to be attracted to certain things. This post is discussing why these things may be different in the sexes.

    If you don’t want to discuss why this may be the case, please refrain from commenting. This is not at all Darwin related.

  12. Ame says:

    My experience mirrors this, and I am in my late 40’s. A guy was getting too friendly for my comfort recently while I was just reading a book, waiting for my kid to finish her lesson. He was a very decent looking, 40-ish-year-old man. I took my left hand from under the book I was reading, and the conversation politely wrapped up as he wished me a good day.

    a visual wedding ring is powerful.

    i wish i could remember the comment one man made … he was around my age and very attractive …

    What Ame is running into is the difference between physical attraction (“baby making desire”) and the desire to talk to the person later (“pleasantness”, I suppose we can call it).

    … while his comment was not ‘baby making desire’ physical attraction b/c i was obviously past that stage, it was definitely that i was sexually attractive. it really freaked me out until i talked to my Husband about it. then after understanding more via the manosphere, i no longer stressed about it.

    no, we are no longer anywhere near what we were when we were younger, but to assume we are never attractive to any man would be a lie and could potentially put us into a situation we do not want to be in. i know this isn’t the direction DS was going in with this post, however, i think it’s important for attractive older women to know there will always be a ‘market’ for their type of attractiveness, and to act, behave, prepare accordingly.

    making your wedding ring visible is very powerful. as Elspeth probably knows, it’s not a deterrent to every man out there, so it’s important to be aware of this and prepared.

  13. seventiesjason says:

    DS “may be different” or is it “are” different????? The numbers scale too is a bit off. I have met men like yourself that will claim a woman is an “8” but I see her, she’s about a “5”

    So who is right? Conversations like this are subjective. Do you like a dark roast coffee, or do you just prefer a cup of tea. People (men and women) like attractive people. People (men and women) hate ugly people. Clear enough?

  14. seventiesjason says:

    And you still have not addressed the point of God in his eternal love of each-and-every-one-of-us made some of ugly, or not attractive…….and others attractive……….if it doesn’t matter to him, why did he make it so profound on earth and if indeed Christians should not behave like this….no man married the physically ugly woman…….but she had this amazing heart for god and his ways

    Or is it that people are suppose to pair off with a looks match?

    And Bruce above in his comment is equating ‘blue pill’ with or meaning “average looking guys” within the standard deviation (SD). Bruce needs to be clear on what the SD is, and how its measured.

    Meaning by the context: Blue pilled men are average looking. So since we are in the sphere…does that make all “red pilled” men above average in the looks dept?

    Really awesome logic here.

  15. hearthie says:

    I actually think older faces are more attractive. Someone did a study about this, where people who were over 35 thought older faces more attractive than younger. I don’t mean like old-older, I mean “over 30”. Then I noticed one of the cousin’s wives (who is a size 0 and has been except for pregnancies) and how I think she’s much prettier now after 30 than before… basically anyone under 25 looks like a kid to me.

    Maybe that’s more a woman thing than a man to so perceive? Pretty solidly known that we prefer more mature mates.

  16. Joe2 says:

    People want to be around other people who are physically attractive and women both young and old will go to great lengths to make themselves as physically attractive as possible. The cosmetics industry is aware of this as shown in the following statistic,

    In 2016, the U.S. was considered the most valuable beauty and personal care market in the world, generating approximately 84 billion U.S. dollars in revenue that year. Skin care products made up the largest part of the cosmetic market at 37% Within the cosmetics category in the U.S., foundation was the most profitable segment. In 2016, about 985 million U.S. dollars were generated from sales of foundations in the U.S. Mascara was the second most profitable segment, with sales revenue of 941.5 million U.S. dollars. Mascara was also the leading segment of the eye cosmetic industry in the U.S. The segment also included eye liners, eye shadows, eyebrow makeup and eye combos. Together, these segments generated more than 2.1 billion U.S. dollars in sales revenue in 2016.

  17. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It really is baffling that women would prefer to rely on the feminist mindset when men would easily and willingly give up the truth in this matter.

  18. elspeth says:

    I dn’t think any woman here has expressed the belief that a 40-year-old woman is as attractive as a 20-year-old woman. As I said above, the notion is silly on its face.

    … while his comment was not ‘baby making desire’ physical attraction b/c i was obviously past that stage, it was definitely that i was sexually attractive. it really freaked me out until i talked to my Husband about it. then after understanding more via the manosphere, i no longer stressed about it.

    This is true. In two relatively recent instances, I was nearly 10 minutes into the conversation (both single dads in kid activity situations) before I woke up enough to realize what was happening, having internalized the idea that it is impossible that anything approaching attraction was the motivation. My husband has given me a warning similar to the one Ame expressed; that you can get into trouble. So I ran it by him and he asked me a question:

    Think about all the female relatives and family acquaintances we know who (whether widowed or divorced) who got married in their 40s, 50s, or in the case of his aunt, their 60s. Do I really believe that none of those couples (about six of them) had sex or were motivated sexually when they married? He noted that a lot of men of a certain age not interested in more kids and so actively look for a good looking woman who is also not interested in having any kids.

  19. Bruce says:

    Hi Jason,
    There’s a common claim in the manosphere that Pareto principle applies to male attractiveness (i.e. the 80/20 rule – women are only attracted to the top 20% of men). There’s some limited data (and people’s experiences) that could support this (or maybe not).
    My hypothesis (I don’t pretend that it’s anything more that that) is that male attractiveness is normally distributed – standard deviation is more applicable. There’s the top +1 sigma (roughly 16% of men) who are physically attractive to women (alpha males – I dislike the term because it implies merely social dominance as in wolves). The middle 68 % (between +- 1 sigma) are “beta males”- attractive enough for women to marry if they can’t get an alpha. The bottom 16% – I would guess most women wouldn’t marry them. These are all semi-educated guessed no doubt somewhat biased by what I’ve read in the manosphere.
    I don’t imagine alpha men are red or blue pill – they don’t have to be aware of these things. I would guess that most red pill and blue pill are the middle 68% ( and maybe the bottom 16%). I do not believe that men who try to “game” women (fake alpha) can be alpha – they are red pill aware betas.
    Does this help?

    Off topic but I believe in evolution and God. I believe differences are due to God’s permissive will so he doesn’t positively will some people to be ugly, short, whatever – our ancestors at some point disobeyed and broke communion with God – we suffer from the consequences but can be saved from the eternal consequenses.

  20. Novaseeker says:

    And you still have not addressed the point of God in his eternal love of each-and-every-one-of-us made some of ugly, or not attractive…….and others attractive……….if it doesn’t matter to him, why did he make it so profound on earth and if indeed Christians should not behave like this….no man married the physically ugly woman…….but she had this amazing heart for god and his ways

    Or is it that people are suppose to pair off with a looks match?

    As a baseline, from simple observation one can observe that most couples are looks assortative — that is roughly as attractive as each other. There are exceptions — normally these are where the less good looking party brings something substantial to the table in other areas (extraordinary money — not just a good income, women have that themselves, but extraordinary financial resources, fame, power). Just how it is. And in marriages when people become looks unassortative (i.e., one person becomes better or worse looking than they were when they married, while the other person remains as good looking), it leads to issues in many cases for the same reason — people strongly prefer to be looks assortative in relationships.

    Looks are not “so profound on earth” so as to prevent people from mating. Again, as I have said to you before, if you walk around Wal-Mart or the local mall or what have you, you will see plenty of obviously coupled people who are obviously not physically attractive in any meaningful sense of the word. Yet they are coupled (whether married or not … that often depends on social class these days), and have children. Their relative lack of attractiveness hasn’t made finding a mate impossible, but it did mean that the mate they did find was similarly unattractive. Again, this is how assortative mating works.

    The trouble that people have is that they want to marry mates who are attractive even though they are not themselves as attractive as the people they want to marry. This applies to both sexes, and it generally impedes mating prospects for these people. Again, their looks are not the issue — a perusal of the couples at Wal-Mart confirms that. Their desire as compared to their looks is the issue.

  21. Novaseeker says:

    He noted that a lot of men of a certain age not interested in more kids and so actively look for a good looking woman who is also not interested in having any kids.

    Yes, among other reasons.

    Let’s say a guy is 53. He is at a cocktail party with work staff, and there are maybe 20 or so women there spanning from mid 20s to late 50s. some attractive and some not, in each age cohort.

    The man will generally find the attractive 27 year old more physically/visually alluring than the attractive 48 year old, even though he will notice both of them as being attractive. This does *not* mean, however, that he is more likely to pursue/flirt with the 27 year old. One reason could be the one you mention — he doesn’t want kids. Another one could be that while he finds the younger woman more physically attractive, he also doesn’t want an intergenerational relationship for various other reasons — awkwardness, differences in opinion/worldview/lifestage that are generational in nature, differences in goals that are generational (and unrelated to kids) and so on. Some men don’t care about that and will pursue the younger woman, other men do care about that and will pursue the older woman who is still attractive rather than the younger woman.

    This is the main reason why it’s the case that *attractive* older women are in quite high demand. Many older men will prefer to pursue an older attractive woman to a younger one, but there aren’t as many older attractive women — so the ones who are still attractive past 45, 50 and so on get to be in very high demand, individually. They stand out more in their age cohort, because relatively fewer women in that cohort are physically attractive at those age ranges than in, say, the mid 20s age range, which is cut-throat competitive for women. So the relatively fewer attractive women in the older age bands are in high demand, and will definitely get approached and flirted with regularly by men who are looking for an attractive older woman.

  22. seventiesjason says:

    Bruce. Thank you for making that a bit more clear. the 80/20 thing is “a thing” but I don’t believe it’s as extreme as that….but I do take issue with people who deny this even existing.

    Nova. Marriage is quickly becoming an “elect” thing in and out of the church, meaning high value men and women tend to marry. When I say high value, I do not mean these people are more “moral” than the working class joe or jane. Many people with wealth and / or status live pretty abysmal personal lives. We just always assume a “married couple” is somehow more moral or better, or more worthy…especially in church attendance. When I say high value. They just have looks, money or status or a combination of these traits….and they are ‘high value’

    Your “heart” for Jesus means nothing and is just ‘lip service’ to the massive proles out there who not find this, have this, no matter what they do. Still doesn’t answer the question to why god “gave” the blessings of looks to some and not others……….the “elect” today seem to have all the answers as to why men and women like me are single, or have always been….while they seem to forget they had a massive head start over everyone else. It’s easy to say “looks do not matter” when one never really had to worry about such matters to begin with.

    We can argue the points and choice about women like Mandy Hale, the women who ride the carousel, Wendy Griffiths…….when it came to most of you men…….you RODE that carousel, found “the one” and (because many or most you had the options to), got all ‘holy’ on the rest of us….and then just “can’t understand why all these Betas won’t change or improve themselves”

    It was like when Kieth Richards of The Rolling Stones mentioned in an interview back in the 1990’s that “young people should not do drugs” and to which many laughed and said “Talk about the pot calling the kettle black! Kids can’t do drugs because you did them all, and made the cost so high (financial and societal), many of the kids could not afford them…..even if they wanted to!”

    Women like attractive men. Men like attractive women. Game over.

    Yes, I shop at Walmart frequently. Have no idea what you are talking about.

  23. Novaseeker says:

    Jason —

    You have to be the only person on Earth who has never seen unattractive people coupled together.

  24. @ seventies

    DS “may be different” or is it “are” different????? The numbers scale too is a bit off. I have met men like yourself that will claim a woman is an “8” but I see her, she’s about a “5”

    So who is right? Conversations like this are subjective. Do you like a dark roast coffee, or do you just prefer a cup of tea. People (men and women) like attractive people. People (men and women) hate ugly people. Clear enough?

    Attractiveness as a whole is fairly objective, but it distributes in a bell curve like most human traits. If the attractiveness of a particular person (man or woman) is a “5” then the majority will think they are a 5, some will think they are a 4 or 6, and some others will think they are a 3 or 7. There is possibility for 3 or 8 but that tends to be negligible.

    In the case of your example, the woman above would probably be a 6 or 7 and you may think she’s a 5 and I may think she’s an 8. That’s not out of the realm of possibility, especially given certain men have different preferences.

    There are also a few odd scenarios where some men like obese women. So where most men would call a obese woman a 3 in attractiveness to them, some other men might think she is an 8 to them.

    And you still have not addressed the point of God in his eternal love of each-and-every-one-of-us made some of ugly, or not attractive…….and others attractive……….if it doesn’t matter to him, why did he make it so profound on earth and if indeed Christians should not behave like this….no man married the physically ugly woman…….but she had this amazing heart for god and his ways

    Why would I address this? It’s off topic. But I’ll do it anyway for you.

    Sure, man looks at the outward appearance but God looks at the heart.

    But God still created man to look at the outward appearance. We can use it in the wrong way by pursuing narcissism or showing partiality, but it is a reality of our world that we have to navigate.

    Working on increasing attractiveness or understanding how attractiveness works is NOT A SIN and is even a good thing in circumstances such as if you want to marry or want to stay attractive to your spouse.

    If you still want to argue about why this could not be helpful to Christians, please reinstitute your blog and do it on there. Anymore off topic commentary will be deleted.

  25. @ hearthie

    I actually think older faces are more attractive. Someone did a study about this, where people who were over 35 thought older faces more attractive than younger. I don’t mean like old-older, I mean “over 30”. Then I noticed one of the cousin’s wives (who is a size 0 and has been except for pregnancies) and how I think she’s much prettier now after 30 than before… basically anyone under 25 looks like a kid to me.

    The OKCupid observational data basically showed that women tend to prefer men around their age while men tended to prefer women almost universally 20-22. That seem to be the standard.

    That said, I’ve seen this in a few cases for men (looking at women’s faces), and I think it’s the exception not the rule. It’s also probably why the “cougar” phenomena has gained prevalence in porn.

  26. seventiesjason says:

    Okay…here we go……define attractive. A man who loves his wife when she is older, and not attractive is accused of having “wife goggles”; a man who says a woman is an “8” and all the other men says she is a “4” (saw this frequently when I was attempting to learn the fraud called Game). A woman smiles at a man in just general friendliness, he usually is convinced “she wants me”

    An “ugly” woman could walk in front of a row of 20 men. One would shrug his shoulders still say “I’d do her”

    You see, I was taught to see the benefit or even the slightest “good” in a person and go by the content of their character over their looks, over how much money they had, or what their background was. I cannot call people unattractive because I am “of” the unattractive….and who knows…..maybe I am the one with a problem.

    Most of these “unattractive” settled….and that is a bad thing in the man-o-sphere….they “got what they deserved” and then will go on about how “ugly” they are. For a group of men supposedly so “loving” and “holy” a lot of time is spent on what is attractive. what is hot. and if you don’t have that……..well, god just made you that way…be happy. No redemption for anyone (unless its themselves..or their own wife, girlfriend, or daughter…you understand).

    It’s a concept I can’t explain too well, and I am speaking to group in general that has no clue on these matter because they never had to live it.

  27. @ Elspeth, Ame

    This is true. In two relatively recent instances, I was nearly 10 minutes into the conversation (both single dads in kid activity situations) before I woke up enough to realize what was happening, having internalized the idea that it is impossible that anything approaching attraction was the motivation. My husband has given me a warning similar to the one Ame expressed; that you can get into trouble. So I ran it by him and he asked me a question:

    I think there’s a couple things going on.

    1. Almost all women tend to buy into the feminist agenda, so women that cultivate feminine traits as well as kindness and godly traits like that tend to stick out like a sore thumb. It’s easy to be drawn into and flirt with that (whether that was their intention or not) because it’s probably something that they don’t experience much with women/their wife.

    2. It is generally frowned upon for large age gaps, so for men in their late 30-40s to be flirting with with women in their 20s, so they are probably going for the ‘next best option’ so to speak. Men still have pretty strong sex drive, so women that keep in shape and are feminine are the top targets (even if married if they don’t care about adultery which some non-Christians don’t).

    3. Some minority of men prefer older women or are so thirsty that they will go for any woman regardless of age or marital status or what have you.

    And yeah Ame I wasn’t trying say that older women can’t attract a man or anything like that. It’s obvious that they can, but their physical sex appeal is usually not as great as when they were younger.

  28. @ Nova,

    Haha, you said much of what I said in a later comment to Elspeth. Guess I should have read them all first.

  29. seventiesjason says:

    DS. Glad you made that clear….about deleting any off topic commentary. I know you will apply it justly and fairly among all posters here 😉

  30. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I can’t get the image of this out of my head. While I can’t find it, there was a Susan Walsh version of Rollo Tomassi’s SMV chart that was passed around a few years ago. Instead of two overlapping bell curves, the “male” curve was as Rollo depicted, but the “female” (pink) peaked and stayed up there indefinitely.
    I think that men may be struggling with the delusions that women harbor. We can’t help but lose.

  31. Jacob says:

    I think the principle that attraction diminishes with age amongst women faster than with men is true. Women’s attractiveness generally peaks at 20-22 while men’s peaks at 30-35. That is, in general terms across an entire dating population, based on pictures and stated preferences, which is all that online dating agencies can really assess with any degree of accuracy.

    Even though intersex attraction can be looked at objectively it is far more subjective in real life (that is to say “real life” prior to the Instagram generation whose behavioral tendencies may in fact be evolving into how the data tells them they should behave rather than how they actually do behave). The dichotomy is interesting enough for its own discussion so I’ll not comment on it here except to say that this is the basic problem with reactive constructions like Game – over time what was intended as only a remedy to a cultural trend can turn into a dependency on worldly constructions, i.e. idolatry. In summary, outcomes may be very different to preferential expectations (e.g. the Shrek effect).

    Perhaps a more important consideration OT is that, aside from naturally losing their figure and looks with age, many women make themselves unattractive by learning and finessing guile and manipulativeness, often well beyond what they themselves can see or control. Manipulation can easily become a habit. Many women today even in the church say something manipulative every time they open their mouths, not because they’re nasty but because they delight in their own guile. If they’ve also jumped aboard the cultural misandry bus, manipulating men can seem justified. Some like to argue that women must develop these skills in order to stay in the game and/or get ahead in “a man’s” world, but they are not the traits of godly women and they kill healthy attraction stone dead.

    Men get better as they age at recognizing this in women, even if any particular man can’t quite put what he senses into words. Ironically, when he demonstrates skill in this area he becomes more attractive to women, not less (fitness test). Still, I don’t think many women realize that men do get better at it, whether or not it can be seen. I’m sure many older physically attractive women believe men can still be fooled because of the little man down there, perhaps mistaking men’s evaluative and judicious silence as ignorance. Still, wily women can and do entrap and ensnare unsuspecting and unaware men to the future detriment of their relationship.

    This lack of realization amongst women seems to feed a delusion that older women must be more attractive because they’ve become more experienced and skilled at life and can more helpfully match a likewise man. It’s a delusion because women tend to view the world through the lens of the self and then project what they feel onto others, which makes it easy to assume (falsely) that what attracts them in men is what men find attractive in women.

    In general, less worldly power, less self-assurance, less confidence, and of course less guile in women are more attractive to men than the opposites (as long as a woman is not so inept as to be unable to look after herself and others). Even the most desirable 50 woman with a perfect waist-to-hip ratio can kill attraction with guile and manipulativeness. Women must guard themselves from this if they want to remain attractive to men, especially later in life.

  32. seventiesjason says:

    eh…heck…you’re probably right everybody. DS asked thoughts on the matter and all the answers just echo…echo….echo…..echo…..what he purports, but its haied them “weighing” in, and if it doesn’t match up to what god, I mean what Rollo or OKCupid says….well, you’re just not saying or weighing in on the preconsribed answer.

    have a good weekend and week. going camping…something that Beta behavior does. lol!

  33. Ame says:

    DS – And yeah Ame I wasn’t trying say that older women can’t attract a man or anything like that. It’s obvious that they can, but their physical sex appeal is usually not as great as when they were younger.

    well … i gotta tell ya … i was honestly shocked! i kind of liked the idea of not having to worry about that anymore! lol! sigh. guess it will always be something i’ll have to be on guard against.

    and, honestly, i’d call myself ‘pretty’ and even ‘beautiful’ sometimes … but, well … i just wasn’t expecting to still be dealing with that post wall.

  34. Sharkly says:

    seventiesjason,
    Why didn’t you ever pursue the nun from Fresno that was apparently attracted to you, and had showed godly character? Was she not attractive enough?

  35. Joe2 says:

    Youthfulness is one of the things that is very attractive to men. This is a fact that is fairly apparent to the vast majority of men, but it seems to be the case that women don’t see it as readily as men do.

    Yes, that is very true. Just take a look at a gentlemen’s club (aka nudie bar) and you’ll find that the entertainers are very young, in their early twenties. It’s a young woman’s game. There may be a few on the cusp and hardly any well over 25. It must be very humiliating for an older woman who thinks she is attractive to experience rejection after rejection from the gentlemen as they purchase dances from the 20 somethings. Thus, there is a huge turnover of older entertainers. I think the current younger generation of women may be more aware of this because one entertainer told me in a few years it will be lights out; its all over.

  36. lastmod says:

    Sharkly. Well. First. She was a freaking nun. Second, I was a pretty serious Salvationist. Third. She wasn’t into me. She said something polite to me after knowing and working with her on and off for seven years in the neighborhood. Fourth. Her attractiveness did not affect me either way. I didnt really find her attractive nor did i find her unattractive. Fifth. You made a really slap-happy comment about this awhile back on Dalrock to gain “cool guy” points with all the ‘mighty men if god’ there that really wasn’t funny. It made it awkward and belittled her commitment to god rhat she did have. She had been a nun since she was 20. Yes…..we all know dear Sharkly that all women lie, are evil and will rebel if you dont read Rollo’s book.

    Finally….and lastly. Men like you dont have the gift of service. You woulndnt understand her…..or me.

    Sorry this reply was off topic DS

  37. hearthie says:

    DS – I thought the question was, “do women and men evaluate attractiveness differently”. So, yes – I think we do. 🙂 I evaluate WOMEN’S attractiveness differently than I know men do. Not “I want to have sex with them” but – “you possess X amount of beauty”. Faces – babyfat are more interesting to me.

    I think there are theological and cultural values to Beauty qua Beauty. I think the world is a better place when we make an effort to be as aesthetically attractive as we have the ability to be. (I just wrote a book about it… yeesh).

  38. Elspeth says:

    I thought the question was, “do women and men evaluate attractiveness differently”. So, yes – I think we do.

    This is true. I think men 30-ish and under, no matter how attractive, look like boys.

    And I also think that both sexes evolve in the way we evaluate attractiveness as we age. My experience and observation are that as men themselves age (Ok Cupid notwithstanding, LOL), they are more generous in their evaluation of women who are older than peak beauty age.

    But that we evaluate differently is without question.

  39. Sharkly says:

    seventiesjason,
    Please understand, I want to help you. I’ve already banked more “cool points” that I’ll ever be able spend. I’m not “cool” because of arguing with you on the internet. I actually loose cool points for that. LOL

    You balk at everybody’s solutions for you, and then are mad that nobody has a solution for your problems.

    You said:And you still have not addressed the point of God in his eternal love of each-and-every-one-of-us made some of ugly, or not attractive…….and others attractive……….if it doesn’t matter to him, why did he make it so profound on earth and if indeed Christians should not behave like this….no man married the physically ugly woman…….but she had this amazing heart for god and his ways

    Here: https://v5k2c2.com/2019/03/24/oh-mother-where-art-thou/#comment-5510
    You described a godly nun, about your age, who was giving you plenty of indicators of interest, but “was just very hopelessly plain”, and how you thought: “In another world we probably would have married. But not this one.”
    Now you’ve just thrown out a bunch of lame excuses for why you don’t pursue her, so I’m going to counter them:
    “Well. First. She was a freaking nun.”
    Nun’s get married and quit the “habit” all the time. God made the woman for the man to be a helper and a mate fit for the man. She doesn’t have to serve God all her life as a spinster. She could serve God and God’s purpose quite well by becoming your helper like women were created to do. She is likely even secretly fantasizing that some man will come along and sweep her off her feet and out of there, before she dies old and alone and still dressed like a penguin.

    “Second, I was a pretty serious Salvationist.
    Well, you left the Salvation Army, so that excuse is gone.

    “Third. She wasn’t into me. She said something polite to me after knowing and working with her on and off for seven years in the neighborhood.”
    Dude! That is just you hating on yourself! You don’t like yourself and how God made you much, so you mentally deny it when others do see you as being a rare treasure. She clearly complimented you while smiling at you, acted surprised that you were lonely like her, and then she proceeded to cop a free hug off of you. Nun’s probably aren’t supposed to be flirting. And even if in your mind, it was all platonic, it happened, and if she didn’t like you, none of that likely would have happened. Furthermore what would she have to do before you realized she might be open to seeing more of you, club you over the head and drag you home to her cave? How forward are you expecting a nun to be with you, before you get the hint? And even if I’m all wrong, what would keep you from turning on some charm, and trying to get her more interested in you, since you seem to both respect each other and have so much in common?

    “Finally….and lastly. Men like you dont have the gift of service. You woulndnt understand her…..or me.”
    There you are right. I don’t understand you. But I bet you and she understand each other in a way I couldn’t. In your comment above you were already defending her honor and piety like you could easily be a good protector for her, and friend to her, and your attitude of “You wouldn’t understand her or me.”, is exactly the kind of “us against the world” attitude that is like the superglue that holds some marriages tightly together against all odds.

    I personally don’t think you’d make a good pick for most of today’s women, and you even claim they let you know it. But here you have an awesome Christian woman who would be a great fit for you, and yet you don’t seize the opportunity, but just make excuses. Is she not hot enough for you? Are you being that shallow and even accusing us hypocritically? If she is half as godly as how you have described her, You should just choose to admire her, and she could make you a far better wife, than some stuck-up hottie ever would. She sounds like a “10” by God’s standards. She shouldn’t be spinning her days away in a nunnery, she should be out going camping with you, and you guys could then serve God together with your combined gifts of service. Call her or email her or “run into her” and reconnect. You’re ruling out a good woman who may be one of the few on the planet who has already indicated that she’d be happy with you. Don’t be too aloof to give her a shot. You can blame me if things go poorly. But if she is as godly as you make her out to be, she will be at least as full of grace towards you as she has been in the past. Be bold, and give it a shot.

  40. Christopher says:

    I’ve been thinking about this lately. It’s pretty obvious that men love younger women. No doubt about that. My question/theory is this: I wonder as a women ages if being single or not affects her attractiveness. There are some women who once they hit the wall, hit it full force without hitting the brakes. However, I wonder if that same woman would be objectively more attractive if she was married to a man who she respected. This is impossible to test, but by pure observation if I see a woman at say 45, one single, the other married, on a 1 to1 comparison, I think the married women are objectively more attractive. Purely anecdotal, I’m just wondering if anyone else has thought about this and what they have observed.

  41. Bruce says:

    From what I can tell, Elspeth is correct wrt older men. It is not un-common for a sixty-something man to consider a 40-something woman, a “young-cutie” or something like that.

  42. Jon Patch says:

    Inner trumps outer, but outer must be well present also. After a long separation, my ex divorced me when I was mid-40s and I started dating pretty quickly. Having been faithful and family focused for 24 years, I was astonished at how many females are out there. I spent time exclusively with early to mid 30s women because they were simply more attractive. There were plenty of dates and long term interest from several. I never connected on a personal level with any and soon departed. Then I moved up to later 30s girls and dated there for awhile, but personalities and attitudes were worse than the younger ones. By this time I was about 50 and decided to skip 40s altogether, knowing what my ex and all her ilk were like, and selected very carefully for a girl just my age. My new wife is very pretty with a very nice figure, both age adjusted to my open mind at the time. On the inside tho she is remarkable: respectful, obedient, demure, serving, encouraging, helpful. She boasts on me openly and broadcasts continually that there is no place she wants to be but by my side. Privately she is very sexy and playful. We enjoy one another’s company and laugh at the same things and reminisce the era in which we both grew up. What a great companion and lover! Three years in and she gets prettier every day to me now. Girls in there 20s are obviously a league of their own and my wife always acnowledges that “every girl is pretty when young with just a little effort,” Then she herself puts in the effort and it just works. My friends in similar places all try to land on a female 10-12 years younger than them and are frustrated most of the time. Oddly, I’ve seen several men in their 30s (not my gang) actually go for women in their 40s. Cougars are easy I guess. I have one friend about 48 and he is with a 23 year old bonafide Hooters girl and she is pleasant enough and is a hit at pool parties and on the boat, of course,, but he confides often that there is just nothing there. She is a place holder on weekend getaways and at parties, but he wants my wife to find him a keeper. In summary: Older gals need to 1)stay trim 2)put effort into hair and makeup 3) have pleasant personality 4)project sex appeal 5) Don’t ever stop, married or single. This makes for an attractive and desirable girl at any age.

  43. Jon Patch says:

    I would say all of my cohorts and I are 5-8 in looks, but all confident and successful. The younger females referenced are all 7-9, mostly 8 (very nice looking girls). Men’s looks, weight, height have not mattered that I can see. After a certain point, the fabled height thing is just not there. Girls in their 20s can demand that, no others. I’m 5’10”

  44. Jon Patch says:

    Chicks that hit the wall do so primarily on the inside first and that lousy attitude that I see so much in 40s aged women seeps to the outside as a major contributor. Ugly feelings make for an ugly face and that is a fact and that’s all I’ve got.

  45. Joe2 says:

    @Sharkly,

    In today’s world, there are plenty of opportunities for a young woman to provide service either short term or long term without having to drop out of society and live a cloistered life. The same could be said for a young man who becomes a priest and lives a celibate life. I respect their decisions, yet at the same time I can’t help but see a lot of red flags and wonder whether there may be some underlying psychological / social issue that remains hidden.

    I think it is inappropriate for a man to “hit” on a nun or for a woman to “flirt” with a priest regardless of how welcoming their relationship / friendship may be. The nun and priest are already married to the church through their vows. It would be up to them to end their cloistered / celibate relationship without encouragement from a suitor as would be the case with a nun.

  46. Jonadab-the-Rechabite says:

    It’s a small tangent but, I hypothesize that God designed men to be attracted to younger women and reluctant around older women for several reasons.

    First, older women “should” be already married and therefore attraction to them is the seed of adultery and a dishonor to her husband. If she has not married there is most likely a reason for her earlier disinterest in marriage or for men’s disinterest in her as a wife. If she is divorced she is damaged goods and in most cases is not permitted to marry without committing serial adultery. She may be a widow and that is the exception that requires a man to carefully evaluate her character before even the first approach.

    Second, younger women are biologically superior, more fertile and more able to survive the perils of childbirth. Most youth posses more energy to raise and nurture offspring.

    Third, older women are more set in their ways and less pliable to adopt a new situation where submission and selfless love are required.

    Forth, younger women are more likely to be dependent on their husband. Female independence means a man is surplus and vulnerable to frivorce.

    God’s design is for a woman to marry while young, create new lives, nurture the offspring, help her husband with loving support and passionate affection and keep the home a safe place full of joy, a place to worship God and disciple and be discipled. Sure beats old, independent, bitter and barren.

  47. Sharkly says:

    I think it is inappropriate for a man to “hit” on a nun …

    Not me. I think snatching that little lamb from the gaping maw of the Great Whore of Rome, would be an act of deliverance. A one nun reformation.

    … for a young woman to … drop out of society and live a cloistered life … I can’t help but see a lot of red flags and wonder whether there may be some underlying psychological / social issue that remains hidden.

    Yes, but, perhaps if we could find a man who isn’t very psychologically-deductive / socially-aware, he might not ever even notice her issues. If only we could find one like that … they could get married and then both drop out of society together … equally yoked and happily ever after.

  48. @ Christopher

    My question/theory is this: I wonder as a women ages if being single or not affects her attractiveness. There are some women who once they hit the wall, hit it full force without hitting the brakes. However, I wonder if that same woman would be objectively more attractive if she was married to a man who she respected. This is impossible to test, but by pure observation if I see a woman at say 45, one single, the other married, on a 1 to1 comparison, I think the married women are objectively more attractive. Purely anecdotal, I’m just wondering if anyone else has thought about this and what they have observed.

    I’ve also recognized a similar phenomena.

    Wives who respect their husbands tend to stay more attractive, sometimes even despite their husband gaining fat weight.

    Though usually it’s a both/and type of thing. The husband stays attractive and the wife stays attractive.

    Single women above 30. 40, 50+ it really just depends on their lifestyle. If they’re committed to hit the gym and have solid eating habits they’ll usually stay slimmer than their overweight and obese counterparts.

  49. @ hearthie, Elspeth

    Yeah, that would make sense to me.

    I do think men’s taste vary a bit as they age too. Beauty is more blinding at a younger age and feminine pleasantness and kindness become a much bigger factor. PLus, a woman that puts effort into taking care of her beauty as she ages (when it’s much harder) tends to stand out a lot more.

    Young women tend to look for the vaunted fame/power/status/physique/protector-esque qualities when they’re younger but as they age they start to look for money and other providership qualities in combo with that.

  50. Wizard Prang says:

    “Beauty is 95% fertility. And fertility is 95% youth”

    Women do not see this because they don’t *want to*. Youth is the primary vector for attention, and without attention, nothing else will happen. In a similar manner, most women in America overestimate their attractiveness. Maybe it’s because of Social Media likes massaging their egos, maybe because attractiveness is in decline and they are still seeing themselves as they were ten years, twenty pounds and three babies ago, maybe something else.

    I see something similar with the current crop of overweight over-thirty spinsters. They keep blathering on about “I’m not getting older, I’m getting better.”, and the only thing you can do is shake your head sadly and think: “Keep telling yourself that”, because if you tell them the awful truth, they will either beat you, run a key down the side of your car, or both. Such is the power of feelings.

    Having said all that, wife Goggles are real. When a man looks at the love of his life, the mother of his children, and the keeper of his heart, he sees years of love, loyalty, care and sufferance. Which more than compensates for fading physical beauty. This is how women stay beautiful forever: marry young, be submissive, stick by him through the hard times. That is the heart of a man, and most women simply do not understand this.

    @Jack, my wife and I went on a tour of Europe a few years ago. Evey city we visited was infested with hordes of middle-aged Oriental women who all looked like Mao Tse Tung. Not all Asian women age like wine.

    @fuzziewuzziebear: “It really is baffling that women would prefer to rely on the feminist mindset when men would easily and willingly give up the truth in this matter.”

    That is because too many women would rather hear a pretty lie than an ugly truth. This is why they are so often the last to know that the looks that once drove men wild are gone. Gravity and birthdays will get them every time… which explains Susan Walsh’s “wishful thinking” graph.

  51. Elspeth says:

    It’s absolutely true that the young (female AND male) are biologically superior, and it’s particularly true when it comes to reproduction. We all have our day in the sun, so I don’t really understand why women get bent out of shape about it.

    The sad reality is that some men genuinely don’t want kids, or at least, don’t want any MORE kids. See Novaseeker’s hypothetical cocktail party scenario. It’s a thing. I have a real-life example.

    At my husband’s office is a young woman of 25 who is cute, gregarious (I’ve met her) and flirtatious. She is always chatting it up with a manager in his late 40s. They enjoy a lot of playful banter. He could go out with her if he’d ask her. My husband is sure of it. Instead, the guy asked her recently, “Does your mom have any single sisters?”

    I was kind of floored by that, but my husband says that the man says he doesn’t want any more children. He has all the kids he plans to have and they’re almost adults. And he doesn’t want to be bothered with a woman who is going to want children from him.

    This is the world we live in now. A world where some men are perfectly happy to get involved with an attractive older woman for the benefits they confer without the attendant “risks” and “sacrifices” of babies. That’s how people are being conditioned to view children.

  52. lastmod says:

    Elspeth. That manager in his 40’s has to ask that or play that hand. More than likely he cannot date subordinates in the office, because if he does…….he dates her and it doesn’t go well, or according to the “flirtatious, gregarious 25 year-old-womans way” he will be fired, out of a job and finding a new place to work. Try rebuilding your career as a man in your forties over something like that. It’s one thing if the company merges with another, and he gets let go…..or the company folds or closes……sure, tough breaks…gonna be hard to find a new job with the same rate of pay, benefits when a company can hire a 25 year old guy outta college for less. But for the man in this situation…..he dates her. He doesn’t do something right on the date, or a hook-up happens and then he breaks it off……guess who is gonna be out of work??????? Guess who has WAY more to lose than the “cute 25 year-old gregarious, flitarious” woman at the office who has “great banter with him”

    I saw this back at IBM in the 1990’s. A manager dates a subordinate, and suddenly “he has to leave” the company because she went to HR after a few dates or a breakup that she didn’t like or want. Nevermind that she made choices in this as well.

    Also, what about morale in the department or compnay? They start dating “quietly” at first, it’s gonna get out because that “cute, gregarious, flitatious” 25 year old will not be able to keep her mouth shut…..and then fellow co-workers male and female are gonna have to tip-toe around her or worry that if they do anything that is wrong around her, she will report it to him, the manager that she is dating / sleeping with / has a relationship with.

    Most companies have polices against co-workers within the same department dating in a manager / subordinate capacity. Some like IBM, and my current employer (property management) will not alllow dating within an office enviroment period unless they are in different offices. Manager is in the San Frnacisco office, the subordinate is in the San Jose office.

    This man in his 40’s is probably smart in this area. He has WAY too much to lose if it goes bad. I am not and never have been a ladies man…..but I have seen first hand how “cute, gregarious, and flitatious” 25 year old women can turn on a DIME and make a man like this lose a career, a promotion and a job.

  53. Bruce says:

    Oh, absolutely. Dating subordinates – that is not allowed – not just if it goes badly – not allowed period. Our CEO was fired for that – flat out.

  54. Bruce says:

    Wizardprang’s last comment is excellent.
    Yep, I see this all the time – the older women, unattractive women, etc. always trying to cling-on to “team-hottie” which is laughable – it gives them some sort of satisfaction if they think they’re grouped with the young, hot women. Then they both (team hottie and their cling-ons) gang up on the few women trying to counsel modesty, chastity, etc. and peck them to death.
    Yes, that’s a decent man’s heart. The path to this is clear but they don’t want to hear it even though God tells them this.

  55. Bruce says:

    Also to women like Elspeth – I appreciate the useful commentary you provide here and elsewhere – adding balance and a Godly-woman perspective. Some men can get over-the top on manosphere commentary (not here necessarily). Sometimes it is understandably angry bitter men but sometimes it is just a pissing contest to see who’s pill is redder – it’s a man-thing – you wouldn’t understand.

    As to men not wanting kids. My wife is very critical of other women. She says many men don’t want kids with THESE women because they’re crazy, pains in the you-know-what, etc. In principle, many would want kids.

  56. Elspeth says:

    I appreciate that, Bruce. I think any general truism or narrative can be taken too far but I still *get* the point. Young people are absolutely more attractive and women and men generally evaluate attractiveness differently.

    My man is one who has a pretty vast social network. And I mean real life not social media, which he faithfully shuns. People -men and women- are just drawn to him. I call him a people collector. I don’t have that gift, if you can call it that. And he does *get* women too in a pretty real way.

    Because of that, we get to see all kinds of people of all ages and from all kinds backgrounds living life. That is why the strict, immovable “it’s always like this and no other possible way” talk makes me wonder if there is any area where our experience isn’t outlier-ish.

    Well, I have said more than enough. Back to the kitchen and book corner I go!

  57. Jonadab-the-Rechabite says:

    Wanting or not wanting kids is irrelevant. Fertility or potential fertility is hardwired at some reptilian brain level. Fertile is attractive even when offspring are not desired. It is just the way of things, it is irrational to fight against it.

  58. Jacob says:

    When a man looks at the love of his life, the mother of his children, and the keeper of his heart, he sees years of love, loyalty, care and sufferance. Which more than compensates for fading physical beauty. This is how women stay beautiful forever: marry young, be submissive, stick by him through the hard times. That is the heart of a man, and most women simply do not understand this.

    This is gold. It’s the conjugate of the Proverbs 5 lesson, well understood. It’s a great encouragement, thanks.

    It occurred to me as I read this that Feminism is a disease of incomprehension and failure. It attacks when women fail to understand the heart of a man. Feministic failure makes women progressively less attractive to men as their inward beauty gets eaten away, like the Picture of Dorian Gray. Feminist schoolteachers kickstart the process early with the corrosive idea that being a girl is like being a boy only better. It’s a recipe for unattractiveness and spinsterhood.

    We need to teach Prov 5 wisdom boldly and unashamedly in the churches. I’ll venture that there are many more young marriages (and intact older marriages) in the churches that do.

  59. Jacob says:

    That is, we need to teach Prov 5 wisdom and its conjugate in the churches. It’s a two-way street.

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