The curses/punishments are disruptions to natural order

I was reviewing Genesis 1-4 over the past few weeks (starting with my read through of the Bible again), and some more interesting topics came up in relation to the temptations and sin of Adam and Eve. I covered some of these in not curses but punishments one and two..

God presents 4 different commands to Adam (and Eve) in the garden.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Genesis 2:15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him into the garden of Eden to cultivate it and keep it. 16 The Lord God commanded the man, saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

  1. Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth
  2. Take dominion/subdue the earth and everything in it
  3. Cultivate and keep the garden
  4. Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, or you will die

The temptation of Eve by deception and Adam’s disobedience show us a couple things too.

Genesis 3:4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! 5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

It’s the half truths that really shine through, IMO.

  1. You won’t die (sorta true. They didn’t “immediately die,” but they ended up with spiritual death and eventually a physical death)
  2. You will be like God, (the true temptation here)
  3. knowing good and evil (true, it is the tree of the knowledge of good and evil after all)

Thus, it is interesting to see the punishments.

Genesis 3:16 To the woman He said, “I will greatly multiply Your pain in childbirth, In pain you will bring forth children; Yet your desire will be for your husband, And he will rule over you.”

17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have listened to the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree about which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat from it’; Cursed is the ground because of you; In toil you will eat of it All the days of your life. 18 “Both thorns and thistles it shall grow for you; And you will eat the plants of the field; 19 By the sweat of your face You will eat bread, Till you return to the ground, Because from it you were taken; For you are dust, And to dust you shall return.”

What you see in the punishments are a typical pattern of increase and see how they correlate directly to God’s commands:

  1. Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth — Eve has increased pain in childbirthing (she already had some pain, but it is “greatly increased”)
  2. Take dominion/subdue the earth and everything in it — This command is originally fulfilled by Adam in Genesis 2 as he is naming the animals and does not need Eve (though God needs a suitable helper). By being tempted to be like God, Eve is tempted to subvert the natural order which Paul expounds on this in 1 Cor 11 with God > Jesus > man > woman. Eve’s temptation is thus: Woman = God > man. This is feminism 101. Women are “god.”
  3. Cultivate and keep the garden — The ground is cursed so that it bears thistles and thorns which make this command harder.
  4. Do not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, or you will die — An increase in death, Adam and Eve died a spiritual and physical death.

There is also the correlation to “desire” in Genesis 4 where God says to Cain:

Genesis 4:7 If you do well, will not your countenance be lifted up? And if you do not do well, sin is crouching at the door; and its desire is for you, but you must master it.”

A wife that knows good (submission) versus a wife that knows evil and tries to usurp or disobey headship from her husband.

In other words, all of the punishments (including Eve’s) are increased temptation to sin which result in an increase in disruption of God’s natural order.

Greatly multiplied childbirthing pain tempts many women away from wanting to have children (which can easily be seen with contraception thereby decoupling sex from procreation — the descent into a hedonist society). Eve is tempted to be like God, and one of those consequences is to be tempted to usurp or disobey her husband’s headship. Adam’s work is made harder, which is why he is tempted to be lazy (big temptation for many men). And obviously death is another natural disorder from God’s creation.

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25 Responses to The curses/punishments are disruptions to natural order

  1. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    The feeling that I get is that we are living in an age that would deserve its own book in the Bible.

    “Eve’s temptation is thus: Woman = God > man. This is feminism 101. Women are ‘god'”.

    I can’t see overcoming this without advice from the Big Guy Himself.

  2. thedeti says:

    God told THEM, both Adam and Eve, to rule over the earth, to take dominion over it. Adam and Eve were supposed to rule over the earth together, as equals, and put together, as a complete self-contained whole.

    The Fall changed all that. God told Eve that she would now be subordinate to Adam. He would rule over HER now, and she would rule over nothing. She wouldn’t even rule over the house or the childrearing (the usual province of the modern woman). She would take care of a house and raise children according to her husband’s direction.

  3. Novaseeker says:

    Adam and Eve were supposed to rule over the earth together, as equals, and put together, as a complete self-contained whole.

    Interesting. This is the whole issue with Gen 1 vs Gen 2. Of course, Gen 2 has Eve coming along later as a “help meet for him [Adam]”, while Gen 1 has them created at once at together being given the command to subdue the earth. Of course, that command follows the command to be fruitful and multiply, which would have been impossible without the presence of Eve to begin with, so to reconcile the 2 chapters, it would appear that Adam was created first, Eve was created later because it is not good for the man to be alone and as a help meet for him, and that thereafter they were commanded to be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth. There is a tension there, since Gen 2 does have Eve being created as a helper for Adam, which would tend not to imply equality, yet the subordination is implied and not express as it is after the curse/punishment (much the same as with childbirth).

    ——

    “Eve’s temptation is thus: Woman = God > man. This is feminism 101. Women are ‘god’”.

    I can’t see overcoming this without advice from the Big Guy Himself.

    Well, it seems rather baked into the cake. That is, this is a fundamental temptation to which Adam was subject prior to the Fall. The temptation to give in to the wife therefore isn’t a part of his “sin nature”, because that didn’t exist yet. This appears to be a very, very deeply seated tendency in the male human, pre-lapsarian in origin.

  4. @ thedeti

    God told THEM, both Adam and Eve, to rule over the earth, to take dominion over it. Adam and Eve were supposed to rule over the earth together, as equals, and put together, as a complete self-contained whole.
    The Fall changed all that. God told Eve that she would now be subordinate to Adam. He would rule over HER now, and she would rule over nothing. She wouldn’t even rule over the house or the childrearing (the usual province of the modern woman). She would take care of a house and raise children according to her husband’s direction.

    I find it likely that there was headship (not ‘equals’) before the fall.

    https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2017/10/04/adam-had-headship-prior-to-the-fall/

    The fall did not change headship; just that Eve would be tempted to usurp her husband’s position that was already there.

  5. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Nova,
    You have a point there. I think the boys would rather cuddle with the girls than make them cry. Still, promoting themselves to be above man and equal to God is not going to be acceptable to either. Until that sunk in, I thought guys were in this alone.

  6. AngloSaxon says:

    Haven’t you realised yet that “equality” means female rule and domination?

  7. Ron Tomlinson says:

    Very interesting. I never noticed this! Makes me want to try looking at the other biblical commands in a similar vein.

  8. wodansthane says:

    @Deep Strength

    …”Because you have listened to the voice of your wife,…” Implies not only that Adam had sinned by abdicating his authority to Eve ( 1Tim 2:12 ), but also that GOD clearly had counseled Adam previously on this particular point.

  9. Bee says:

    Novaseeker,

    “so to reconcile the 2 chapters, it would appear that Adam was created first, Eve was created later because it is not good for the man to be alone and as a help meet for him, and that thereafter they were commanded to be fruitful and multiply and subdue the earth. There is a tension there, since Gen 2 does have Eve being created as a helper for Adam, which would tend not to imply equality, yet the subordination is implied and not express as it is after the curse/punishment (much the same as with childbirth).”

    The way I understand this:

    Genesis Chapter 1 is a an overview, the big picture. Genesis Chapter 2 goes into more detail. The commas, periods, and Chapter headings were not in the original Hebrew. The flow of Chapter 1 includes the first 3 verses in Chapter 2. I think Chapter 2 should begin with verse 4.

    Both Adam and Eve were created on the 6th day. But, Adam was created early in the day and Eve was created late in the day. God and Adam did some time consuming things before Eve was created; God put Adam in the Garden as a caretaker, Adam named all the animals. These things took many hours. After these things passed, Eve was created.

  10. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    To those who are confused about whether Adam had a wife at the beginning or that God provided Eve to him later, it is answered by the legend of Lilith. According to Jewish scholars, Lilith blew it by trying to control Adam to the point where she had to be on top for sex.
    To that, it would be a good thing for God to put a number of men in a deep sleep and takes some ribs. The daughters of Eve have done much worse than Lilith.

  11. Joe2 says:

    Genesis 2:16 The Lord God commanded the MAN (emphasis added), saying, “From any tree of the garden you may eat freely; 17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”

    It seems that Eve was not present (or not yet created) when God gave the command otherwise Genesis 2:16 would have stated God commanded THEM and not just the man. Thus, God established Adam’s authority to Eve and relied on him to instruct Eve about the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    Genesis 3:4 The serpent said to the woman, “You surely will not die! 5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 … she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate.

    Here Adam and Eve are together when the serpent approached the woman. [Eve gave the fruit to her husband WITH HER (emphasis added)] It’s significant that the serpent ignores Adam’s authority and goes directly to the woman with the question. That scenario seems to be the modus operandi with women’s bible studies, women’s prayer groups, etc. which can easily lead to deception.

  12. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    DS,
    There is so much that your equation, Woman= God> Man, can explain. It explains why hypergamy came out of nowhere. In promoting themselves, women demoted men sexually.

  13. thedeti says:

    Nova, DS:

    Good discussion. Thanks for that.

  14. Anonymous Reader says:

    fuzziewuzziebear
    It explains why hypergamy came out of nowhere. In promoting themselves, women demoted men sexually.

    You still do not understand hypergamy?

  15. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Anon,
    A diamond has a lot of facets. Understanding deepens over time. Oh, and we’re not in high school anymore.

  16. lastmod says:

    You know god commanded all believers to have their “yes mean yes” and their “no mean no”

    and wasn’t there a man named jesus who, through him we could overcome this? I guess not……we’re all doomed….well except for the men who just you know “met and married the unicorn”

    again why christianity has little or no appeal left. women are evil, hypergamous, men have to learn game, frame, read book after book, after book, after book in order to get one of these women who are evil from day one…..because genesis says so.

    no need for jesus….no one can change.

  17. @ jason

    What does any of what you wrote have to do with this topic?

  18. lastmod says:

    you’re the smart one here………..we don’t need the NT or the ministry of jesus…….in Genesis it tells us that women are terrible, are evil, are bad…….but as man and gods sick cosmic joke…….he’s going to make us pursue this evil thing, and then men like you are going to tell us how to do it

  19. lastmod says:

    there is “no hope” left in christianity. women bad, hypergamous….evil nature, sinful nature……..

    why have the NT? Why did jesus have to come if nothing could be redeemed? no one changed? once a “slut” always a slut right? no redemption! No hope!

    it has a lot to do with this topic, and you being so smart you’re actually stupid not to see it

  20. @ jason

    you’re the smart one here………..we don’t need the NT or the ministry of jesus…….in Genesis it tells us that women are terrible, are evil, are bad…….but as man and gods sick cosmic joke…….he’s going to make us pursue this evil thing, and then men like you are going to tell us how to do it

    And you’re making stuff up here. Both Adam and Eve sinned, but it came back to bite them in different ways.

    there is “no hope” left in christianity. women bad, hypergamous….evil nature, sinful nature……..

    I have a separate section of the blog specifically about the gospel:

    https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/evidence-of-the-resurrection/

    why have the NT? Why did jesus have to come if nothing could be redeemed? no one changed? once a “slut” always a slut right? no redemption! No hope!

    Your words, not mine.

    I always been under the assumption that those who follow Christ are new creations in Christ. The old has gone the new has come.

    it has a lot to do with this topic, and you being so smart you’re actually stupid not to see it

    Alright, if this is your weekly way to vent (again) fine. If you’re going to use ad hominem you’re going to be banned.

  21. lastmod says:

    “the old has gone and the new has come”

    Great if you actually believed that.

  22. lastmod says:

    Also, you’re talking to a man who falls within the vast swath of most people. An average IQ. I have no idea what “ad hominen” means, is or how it is applied to this.

  23. lastmod says:

    If am I am banned……no skin off me. It will again reaffirm the position of: christianity is an elite, snobby faith that cannot answer the basic questions, attract and keep men and has little or no appeal to the vast swath of men who supposedly “need a savior” or need to be “convinced” of one. The sloppy evangelism, and then reading the bible, and being told that isn’t what it means “you see I know greek / hebrew / was mentored by this amazing scholar”

    There is no hope. It;s a faith that says “we welcome all” and then builds a fance around it. Asking questions gets you shaking heads and rolling eyes…….picking up your cross gets you “Oh….so he thinks he better than anyone else!!!!”

    I cannot recall where, but I head once that a pastor said “You know, someday…..some man out there is actually going to read the bible and just believe it”

    I doubt that day will ever come

  24. Novaseeker says:

    Jason —

    The hope in Christianity has always been for the Kingdom — this life will be difficult, as we are told in the NT. Yet we are to have hope, because Christ has defeated death, and the ruler of this world, and the Kingdom will prevail when Christ returns. That is the Christian “hope” — not in the sense of “I hope it happens”, but in the sense that it gives us hope in *this* life which is filled with difficulties and challenges due to our own sins and those of others.

    Blaming the manosphere, or the red pill, or other Christians or whatever else for a loss of faith on your part widely misses the mark. Your faith is internal to you — this is the case even in the “high” churches like the one I am a part of, as much as it is among the looser more individual oriented Protestant communities. If you lose faith, that is your issue, in that it comes from inside you — even if it is a reaction to what is going on outside of you, it is still your own choice, your own reaction, which is in your control. It is no-one else’s doing.

    I know you will see this as a lecture, as talking down and so on — you always do whenever any of us has tried to dialogue with you at all. You have one reaction and one response. And, again, that is internal to *you*, and comes from inside *you* — it isn’t about us. Ultimately, Jason, you can choose to get better or not … and that, too, will be your decision, and yours alone.

  25. @ Nova

    Well said.

    If someone thinks that this blog (or anywhere else for that matter) is negatively affecting their faith then they shouldn’t be reading it.

    The goal of this blog is to explore different topics of culture and/or Churchianity and highlight how they are often incorrect in respect to the Bible and reality. Some of these topics are not PC and can easily be misinterpreted in bad ways. If that’s the case, better to to read, especially if one’s faith is weaker (per 1 Cor 8).

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