Where have all the good men gone #233548527

Whenever I see these, I always wonder when they’ll eventually stop. This one coming from the wall street journal.

When my daughters were small they had a favorite bit of doggerel that prefigured some early feminist leanings.

“Girls go to college to get more knowledge/Boys go to Jupiter to get more stupider,” they would chant at me, and, with more evident passion, at any young males in their vicinity. I’d try to take issue with the grammatical betise in the second line that, I would point out, slightly undermined the premise of the jibe, but it was no good. Girls were smarter than boys and immeasurably superior in just about every other respect.

On that, of course, I have never dared demur.

But as it turns out, and as my girls progress with grace and accomplishment up the gilded escalator of their liberal education, there’s a searing piece of truth in that couplet that points up a deep demographic chasm in this country and in much of the developed world.

Pretty much shows where he’s coming from in the first few paragraphs. Father of (only) daughters and scared they won’t have anyone to be with. Likes to insult men for not stepping up, like the rest of our culture and even Churches.

The approach is from an educational gap standpoint, and I’m omitting the statistics cited in the article because they’ve been around for a while. Close to 55:45ish in college and 60:40 in grad school. Supposedly going to get worse (which they will).

It is estimated that for every three men with bachelor’s degrees in their 20s and 30s, there are now four women. Most studies of human heterosexual attraction suggest both that intellectual capacity and achievement is an important attractor and that people tend to gravitate toward a partner with roughly the same level of attainment.

But every year, the pool of eligible male graduates is getting smaller relative to the number of women. Now of course college isn’t everything, and many women will find a perfect mate who hasn’t been through the four-year playground of parties, sleeping and the occasional lecture. But the reality is that more of them are going to have to if they want a meaningful relationship.

And there’s a larger problem confronting these new cohorts of well-educated women. It’s always been assumed that women are more selective in seeking out a partner of the opposite sex. Men are notoriously undiscriminating; women, obviously more refined and sophisticated, are more choosy. But with data now available from dating apps we are beginning to get a sense of just how big this gap is too.

Bolding mine. Can’t stop throwing the potshots around.

A simple solution would obviously be to drop all of the programs for women’s education attainment and focus them on underachieving men. That’ll never happen though. So the gap will get worse, and women along with men like these will be left crying over it.

The cause and effect is clear, but many men seem to be willfully blind about it. Especially when they have daughters.

The good news for men is that you can easily make yourself stand out by just going to college or graduate school and doing well and transitioning it into a solid job.

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52 Responses to Where have all the good men gone #233548527

  1. It’s one thing to have a larger vocabulary, but, even for the WSJ, that was some real “Try Hard” action to open a piece. Though it also works to deflect realities, which is the point of a piece like this.

    “The cause and effect is clear, but many men seem to be willfully blind about it. Especially when they have daughters.”

    Pieces like this are really a version of self-rationalization of a position. It seems clear that, at the core level, the guy does understand the problem. But, to keep his own positions, he could never say it out loud. So you get pieces like this bemoaning the situation and trying to convince the ether that you still believe in the fantasy. It’s also why these pieces get “air time”, as everyone needs to duly nod their head along in agreement to the socially acceptable talking point.

    While, at the same time, especially for fathers of only daughters, any real mental deviation from the socially acceptable position will force them to confront a reality that they’ve utterly failed. Which is another driver for pieces like this. People will do amazing amounts of rationalization to prevent dwelling on the harsh reality they’re working so hard to ignore.

    Now, the actual answer goes like this: the only way the education gap can exist as it does is due to massively dummy down requirements while also bringing online significant amounts of degrees that do nothing. This is exactly why 50% of people never use their degrees. Natural state of “above average students” that historically would attend college should be around 65:35 Male:Female. The harder the mental strain of the task, the further it shifts to the Male direction.

    The current “poster child” for this problem is Doctors. The hard 50/50 rule has already done catastrophic damage to the medical systems and will continue to make things worse. Given the necessary mental ability nature as a floor for the work, the ratio should be somewhere between 3:1 to 4:1. The distortion of the 1:1 ratio causes doctor shortages, significantly higher costs and general slowdown in the medical field in general. And all for social engineering reasons.

    Of course, since this is really a Women & Hypergamy issue, it behooves me to mention that the Male:Female ratio also gets wildly male shifted when you go the other way on the charts and you’re dealing with all types of mental, emotional or genetic issues. The double X sex-linked chromosome pairing works as a double buffer for a lot of genetic markers, which is why there is so little variance among Women of similar genetic backgrounds, whereas the XY pairing for Men allows genetic traits to vary wildly, creating the much higher variance with much less clustering of abilities.

    As for College and Men in general, Education is a “means to an end”. If you’re treating it as anything else, you’re doing it all wrong, especially college & above. .If you aren’t in hard sciences or have something very specific you want out of college, you really don’t have much use for college. This was always true, for everyone but the really wealthy, until about 1970, as far as the culture was concerned. While the culture changed on this point, reality hasn’t.

  2. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    “Where have all the good men gone?” articles will continue to be written while no one addresses the underlying hypergamy. Women have placed too high a value on themselves. Trades can’t happen. The sexual marketplace remains a marketplace. Add to that, we have high school boys, at the peak of their sexual desire, taking the Black Pill because of their personal observation. This is only going to end when women no longer see advantage in it.

  3. Jacob says:

    I echo the first comment

    Men’s achievements have not, are not and will never be measurable in the same way society measures women’s achievements. The fundamental error these MSM clowns and their fevered readers make (and one wonders how stupid they must be to make it with so much education), is that men’s choices are primarily driven by need.

    Men by and large are doers and/or problem-solvers. Their actions are driven by the need to find something, build something, produce something, fix something, tame something, catch something. The heart of a man is a hunter, a pioneer, an explorer, an inventor, a builder, a farmer, a hero. If only in his own estimation, yet that’s what counts.

    Modern tertiary education (except maybe in STEM fields) and the modern workplace have next to nothing that energizes the masculine heart. We get degrees and jobs because we need them and want to do something useful and productive. Men’s satisfaction in life comes from learning skills and applying them to produce positive outcomes for himself and others. College degrees are not a success object in themselves. Many, many men succeed without them. Tradesmen are flourishing today.

    For most women, college degrees and job status are the success objects. It’s not the work or productivity, or outward value of their output that matters to them. Why would men feel that competing with that is an achievement? The kind of work most college-educated women do is unproductive, uninteresting and tedious. If women can do the drudge work, it’s something men don’t need to do anymore. As workplace production and performance economics adjust to women’s success metrics in these jobs, and society accepts that women can bring sufficient value and performance to them, whether or not they’re of any outward consequence, it basically becomes women’s work and men no longer feel compelled to do it.

    There is of course the problem of diminished professional competence. Medicine is a classic example, as the first commenter aptly notes. The medical industry is loaded with totally unnecessary, drudgy, self–important status-work. Women doctors are the worst, especially when it comes to treating men. Men are disposable to the entitled female mind. Male suffering is all but invisible. Scoldsplaining is rife. Women doctors behave as though it’s a privilege for you to have them as your doctor, and woe betide thee if you challenge anything they say or do. They’re happy to sacrifice a male patient rather than examine themselves or change this attitude. Not the kind of person you want on your medical team.

    There’s more to the education disparity than these few things, but it doesn’t need to spell doom and gloom. Men are freer than ever to do the things they enjoy and find challenging work rather than waste their money and college years competing for drudgy status-work that women will do. The trick is in finding sustaining work that men naturally do better at and building the skills to do it well. That’s not as easy as it sounds in the current climate, but it gets easier as you find out how and where to look for it. It’s a challenge that men are better equipped than women to meet.

    The question the WSJ and others should therefore be asking is not why can’t men compete, but why don’t they. The answer is right in front of them, if only they remove the cultural blinders: men don’t compete because they’re not compelled to. The heart of a man is heroic. Competing with women is just…not.

  4. Pingback: The Feminine Dilemma | Σ Frame

  5. Sharkly says:

    In my parent’s generation, a man was almost guaranteed to come out of college with a young wife who was eager to become the mother of his children, or at least with a fiancée who was anxious to get her mate-for-life locked in. Today college offers nothing, but young independent whores, who won’t even be ready to settle for any man until after almost another decade of riding cocks, and a fizzled career that has left her old, worn, and compelled to marry by her last rotting eggs, and the encroaching fear of being eaten by her own cats when she dies completely alone. These young whores hard hearts are so full of sedition against godly motherhood instilled form childhood, that you’re playing Russian-rape-allegation-roulette with your future by even just befriending one, and our liberal colleges only fuel this fiery rebellion against God and men, then ignite and release pack after pack of entitled baying Feminazis on society like a Biblical plague, like Sampson’s burning foxes into the dry harvest-time wheat. Woe! For we are undone! Fortunately I know the solution.

  6. Its no ones problem women dont want to date down. Men have no problem wife-ing up a hot McDonalds cashier. If women do , thats their problem.

  7. Lost Patrol says:

    Does the author actually mean to be satirical? I don’t think so, his bio belies the notion, but the obvious attempts to curry favor with his own daughters (who will be reading this and their friends will too) are so boilerplate pedestalizing that they could pass for a gag.

    as my girls progress with grace and accomplishment…

    …women, obviously more refined and sophisticated,…

    Credentialed women can’t find a worthy man. Let them eat cake.

  8. RICanuck says:

    The very beginning of the WSJ screed shows that his daughters, and him have internalized a contempt for boys and young men. He spends energy in AMOGing his daughters potential life partners.

    Why would he want hid daughters of the gilded escalator to join together with such inferior creatures?

  9. Novaseeker says:

    He is the former Editor in Chief of the WSJ so one can rest assured that his daughters have been raised with the silverest of spoons and access to the most elite areas of society possible in that socio-economic set. He actually has very little to worry about, because his daughters almost certainly will be able to find mates among their own small socio-economic set, because the kinds of schools they attend (the private elite universities), mess with their applications in order to achieve gender parity on campus, number one, and, number two, in the cities where these kinds of hypereducated women land afterward (it’s a handful that attract the most ambitious and highly educated of both sexes), and in the high-end social milieu in these cities in which they are ensconced, there is not a “man shortage” to any meaningful degree. In this small social group, there is not a shortage of highly educated, ambitious men — because that’s precisely who is in that social group to begin with. These get married, in almost all cases, to very similarly educated men, somewhere between 28 and 35. Like clockwork.

    So he’s virtue signaling. He knows it’s “a problem” in the abstract sense (and it really is, for social groups below his own), but it isn’t a problem in his own, and it won’t be a problem for his daughters. He is making a point to virtue signal, however, and pretending that he shares a problem which he knows he full well does not.

    The problem below that in socio-economic class is significant. In the middle class, college is becoming a girl thing, as is education in general. This is the case in pretty much all public schools at all levels, and throughout the middle class and below. But the problem shouldn’t be overstated. You’re not talking about female executives not finding mates. You’re talking about nurses and teachers (most of both have Masters degrees) not marrying guys with masters or even bachelors degrees, but guys who are firefighters or tradesmen. That’s not new and it isn’t a tragedy. Social workers marrying woodworkers isn’t a tragedy. Fact is there are a lot of jobs that require college or grad degrees that are well-matched with men with jobs that don’t, and these pairings are happening.

    The squeeze happens in between. It’s with the women who are not a part of the social-economic class that Gerard Baker comes from, on the one hand, but who are also not getting “practical degrees” like nurse, physical therapist, teacher, social worker, etc., and open to marrying “working men” without degrees. It’s the girls from families in the middle, the ones with student loans and degrees in economics, who are working in entry-level cubicle jobs, and who look around and are surrounded by women like them, and very few men. These women are in a real bind, because they aren’t in the “high end” set like Baker’s daughters are, where there are still plenty of men, and they aren’t in the “practical degree” crowd which marries workmen without degrees — they’re stuck in the middle where they vastly, vastly outnumber men. And it’s because of the reasons that the OP talks about, and which Baker ignores. Instead, Baker wants to virtue signal about a problem which doesn’t actually exist for girls from his own social-economic set.

  10. Joe2 says:

    I don’t think he is throwing potshots around at men. He is being satirical. “Girls were smarter than boys and immeasurably superior in just about every other respect.” If that statement is true, it begs the question, “Why then do they find themselves in this predicament?”

    As often mentioned in the man-o-sphere, Christian women are too particular and in the secular world statistics from dating apps both prove that point and show how big the gap is (between what women are looking for and what is available.)

    His solution to this situation is not for men to improve themselves and try to stand out by going to college or graduate school and doing well and transitioning it into a solid job. His solution is for young women not to be so discriminating or choosy. The problem is with the young women and not with the young men.

  11. Minesweeper says:

    Well “boo fucking hoo”, ive met so many men like this, full on feminists – burn the men\boys to the stakes because their not girls- then wail – why arn’t my daughters being courted by the suitors she should be : marriage, kids, lining up like a lamb for slaughter in the divorce like he should be?

    Where have these men gone ?

    Well, I hope they will enjoy the future they have help create. After all, what else are sperm banks for ?

    The reality is – we (and our sons) have left the building, we know your dreadful plan and we are aborting it at the beginning.

  12. Minesweeper says:

    Im generally constantly amazed by the sheer number of christian men who are full on feminists with a hard on for it.

    I mean, my gawd, you have sons you fu8kers.

    Still, they will happily, with a smile on their face. throw everyman into the woodchipper who doesn’t fall face down to worship their beliefs.

    Its astonishing, and tragically they REALLY believe, this is somehow the best the church can achieve.

    I find these guys disgusting and they make me want to vomit.

  13. theasdgamer says:

    So, let’s take a vote. How many of you plan to win Darwin Awards?

  14. Minesweeper says:

    Men,

    Plough ahead and get your hard to obtain STEM degree.

    So she can milk you dry in marriage.

    And strip the meat off your bones in divorce.

    Did I miss anything ?

  15. theasdgamer says:

    Sweeper, did you have to work hard to get so retarded, or does it come naturally to you?

    Pay attention. Divorce is down.

  16. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Gamer,
    Divorce may be down, but so is marriage. In 1960, over seventy percent of adults were married. A couple of years ago, it dropped past the fifty percent mark. Having heard no further word on it, let’s presume it’s still dropping.

    As for the assertion that these WSJ girls are in an economic class that is immune to hypergamy, I have trouble believing it. Hypergamy doesn’t work that way. It excludes the ordinary to favor the exceptional. These girls were brought up to hold men and boys in contempt. They are only going to be attracted to someone who has fifty percent more of any measure.

  17. Minesweeper says:

    @Joe2, you blind ?

    “Most studies of human heterosexual attraction suggest both that intellectual capacity and achievement is an important attractor and that people tend to gravitate toward a partner with roughly the same level of attainment.

    But every year, the pool of eligible male graduates is getting smaller relative to the number of women”

    He cares about 1 thing only, less males fit for the plough.

    Less males means less selection.

    Less selection means less competition.

    Less competition means a lesser standard of male will rise to the top.

    Fit to provide and sacrifice themselves for his little darlings, who deserve nothing more than the absolute best the west has to offer her.

  18. Minesweeper says:

    @fuzziewuzziebear says “Divorce may be down, but so is marriage. In 1960, over seventy percent of adults were married. A couple of years ago, it dropped past the fifty percent mark. Having heard no further word on it, let’s presume it’s still dropping.”

    You sure about that ? Last I read less than 50% arn’t even in a relationship.

    @adsgamer, not seen you in a while. I had to work very very very hard to be retarded.

    You ?

  19. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Minesweeper,
    It’s two years old, but I think this is the story that got all the attention.
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/14/as-u-s-marriage-rate-hovers-at-50-education-gap-in-marital-status-widens/
    Numbers like these will only change glacially. Still, the effects are profound and unexpected. This goes back to 2012. What has been edited is the reason. At that point grocery stores were dealing with thirty one percent men. In the sixties it was over eighty percent women.
    https://nypost.com/2012/07/26/store-launches-man-aisle-for-shopping-challenged-dudes/

  20. Anonymous Reader says:

    On that, of course, I have never dared demur.

    Says it all. Pity any man foolish enough to marry his snowflakes.

  21. @ Nova

    He is the former Editor in Chief of the WSJ so one can rest assured that his daughters have been raised with the silverest of spoons and access to the most elite areas of society possible in that socio-economic set. He actually has very little to worry about, because his daughters almost certainly will be able to find mates among their own small socio-economic set, because the kinds of schools they attend (the private elite universities), mess with their applications in order to achieve gender parity on campus, number one, and, number two, in the cities where these kinds of hypereducated women land afterward (it’s a handful that attract the most ambitious and highly educated of both sexes), and in the high-end social milieu in these cities in which they are ensconced, there is not a “man shortage” to any meaningful degree. In this small social group, there is not a shortage of highly educated, ambitious men — because that’s precisely who is in that social group to begin with. These get married, in almost all cases, to very similarly educated men, somewhere between 28 and 35. Like clockwork.

    Definitely think you are right on this, but it is becoming more common for even upper-middle and upper class people to be single for longer periods of time or divorce and move onto second and third marriages too (or be left out single after think the grass is greener).

    I don’t think his girls will have any problems if they want to marry, but another issue is will they be content with who they marry.

  22. Novaseeker says:

    t is becoming more common for even upper-middle and upper class people to be single for longer periods of time or divorce and move onto second and third marriages too (or be left out single after think the grass is greener).

    I don’t think his girls will have any problems if they want to marry, but another issue is will they be content with who they marry.

    As trends I think this is correct, I agree. The contentment issue is an issue across the board, and I do think it impacts everyone, including those in Baker’s world. As women become more masculine in their behaviors and pursuits, they become much more discontent with the men that the adrogynizing age is creating — softer men in general — and in fact need men who are almost hyper-masculine to appear at all masculine to them given that they themselves have become masculinized women. Couple that with the general trend towards extreme individualism that permeates the culture at all levels and it’s a clear recipe for marital problems.

  23. northernobserver says:

    My wife shared an anecdote with me regarding the son of a first generation Greek immigrant family that made it big in the restaurant business. The eldest daughter was married off to a suitable wealthy WASP lawyer and they behave like snooty royalty and have 1 kid. The son was similarly set up for an arranged marriage with a suitable wealthy woman of all the right opinions and learning but this son perceived the disaster that awaited him and the unhappiness that would follow and he broke with the plan and married the short, brown, Guatemalan maid that tended his fathers home. Ohhh the outrage. Ohhh the threats of disinheritance. Ohh the “shame” of it all. But four kids later, a stable traditional home with a stable traditional wife who demurs to her husband yet runs the home like a pit boss, and one can say that the son has cut the Gordian knot of modern marriage with his perception of value and valueless.
    Some things occur to me in this scenario. First, the future relies on breaking with social norms. Second, breaking with society requires male courage, nothing can replace male courage. Third, race is simply not what it used to be, and if western white women of European decent are infected with liberal syphilis, what choice do traditional white men have but to marry out in search of a reliable mate. And let’s be honest, a south american wife is not a huge reach.

  24. @northrnobserver:

    Race matters because Race always matters. Be wary of trying to convince yourself otherwise, as part of the “Niceness Culture” is to attack anyone that notices that it always matters. As a matter of fact, both part of your anecdote are dictated by racial hierarchies. For the 1 son family, she married “down” the hierarchy in any Western European country. Greeks are Greeks and “White” isn’t a race.

    Considering you said WASP, I’m assuming they’re in the States and this is on the East Coast. Which means while the family might have wealth & status, they’re still not central to the National Identity. As a result, the wife is overcompensating and burning through the social status she can acquire via her marriage. She’s an outsider to whatever realm the WASP lawyer inhabits. Her son is thus, also, a vehicle for her hypergamy since he would open up opportunities she wouldn’t have otherwise. There’s also the issue that, coming from a family with money, her hypergamy hamster is also quite confused a lot of the time.

    Same is true of the son that bailed on a disaster. While he isn’t American, he’s still fair-skinned and well-off living in the States. South & Central America are race stratified countries. The lighter skinned you are the higher in the peaking order you are. The former maid saw the absolute opportunity and her own hypergamy hamster would be attempting to achieve orbit the instant he’d shown actual interest in her. At the instinctual level, she’s terrified of losing what she has and is acting in response.

    The top of the male hierarchy is always dictated along the lines of tall, well-built and how fair of skin a man has. This has been true since Noah & family stepped off the Ark and will be until the Lord returns. You might want to re-read the stories of King Saul and King David to see the Lord’s view on how much it actually matters to Him, but the world is still the world and it will act like the world until it gets rolled up like a scroll & burned.

    The general advice for Christian Men is different than non-Christian Men living inside a society. You have to separate the advice. For the Christian Man, you have to understand your making decisions that will have very significant consequences. Good women are hard to find and I’ll never give a Christian Man any grief over the racial issues that crop up. However, neither does it behoove Christians to ever ignore the reality of the way human physiology & society works. The biggest situation that may arise from the choice is that your sons may come to hate you, especially if you’re from dominant group in a society and they’re made outsiders by your choice. Especially if they come to feel they’ve been robbed of an identity.

    For a non-Christian Man, the answer is more simple: don’t. You’ll regret it. A lot. Unless you’re outside of the dominant group already and marrying another not from the dominant group. If either spouse is from the dominant group, it’ll go badly in nearly all cases. The media has to work night & day to find examples that don’t go poorly.

  25. lastmod says:

    Divorce is down because marriage is down, and we’re not counting the vast swaths of people who “have kids together” but never marry, so of course you can’t divorce (as in a hard statistic) if there was no marriage to begin with. Let alone even if these people are living together…….they’re not.

    Never met so many guys who “have kids” but never married the girl and have nothing to do with their spawn. Never met so many “strong, modern women” who “don’t need no man” except when it comes to child support and the government to step in.

  26. lastmod says:

    As for the WSJ……..since the format change in the early 2000’s there really hasn’t been anything worthwhile. I read their series on Amtrak a few years back online………for a rail system that makes no money…actually is hemorraging money except for the Boston-NYC-DC corridor; their end take on the whole thing was “give Amtrak more money because some old veteran in Bullfrog, North Dakota won’t get to see his great grandkids in Chicago if there is no rail service”

    So much for business sense……and right after that crash in 1987, a few months later they were telling everyone “they predicted it”

    Ummmmmm….no. They were pushing the people like Michael Milken that helped caused that selloff. 2008???? Oh yes, they knew it was coming. No. They were just as shocked as anyone else was.

    And now…….stories about boys n girls and “girls” just knowin’ their stuff because boys are just lazy”

    At this rate, I would trust better financial advice from “National Enquirer” or “Weekly World News”

  27. Jacob says:

    Chacon a son gout, as the French say.

    To each his own indeed. Leslie Caron in that photo looks like a teenage metrosexual boy. She was cute as a button though and had a dancers body. She didn’t age well.

    Audrey Hepburn on the other hand is the epitome of lifelong feminine beauty, I would say to the universal eye. She looked good even in jeans, in overalls, in a wet canvas sack and without make-up. Interestingly, however, looking at the first photo of Audrey above, my strongest desire is not to marry her but to look at her, to hold her image in my mind for as long as I can. I remember thinking whenever I saw her in movies “gosh I hope she married a decent man in real life”, but I never once longed to be that man. I would certainly have enjoyed her on my arm and in my bed, but as an artist would a muse. She stimulates the imagination to great manly heights. Her beauty is an object of great price, a modern Helen of Troy, an objet d’art, not something to marry or merely lie with.

    The second photo of Audrey evinces an entirely different feeling. I want to scoop up her wholesome winsomeness in my arms and marry her, cherish her, and look after her. And most importantly to give her a family of her own. I want to do the very best I can for her and present her shining happy face and joyous heart holy and blameless to the Lord. This feeling persists even when I now look at photos of her as an old woman. She was beautiful almost to the end in a classical sense, but I see the wholesome, winsome, jeans-clad faux-wife of youth that’s in the second photo. These are just photos and not the person of course, but the difference is immense.

  28. Jacob says:

    I’ve done it again. That comment was meant for Dalrock’s. Both blogs look the same. Sorry.

    Still, it’s relevant here also. A woman’s need for higher education is inversely proportional to the natural beauty she has. If a woman catches the eye of a high-status man early in life and gets married, her ambitions for degree-status and job-status are largely moot. She gets her status from her marriage. Why would she even want to work? Being the wife of a high status man is work enough for her. A degree and a job would be a huge step down. There’s definitely a link between the diminishing attractiveness of Western women and the increase in their education levels.

  29. theasdgamer says:

    @ minesweeper, fuzzie

    Likely most marriages are now UMC, which accounts for the dropping divorce rate.

    LTRs are still very much in vogue. So is branch-swinging between relationships.

    When it comes to retardation–unfortunately, I’m still a work in progress. 😉

    Why is there so much anger against women? I used to be angry until I accepted reality and abandoned fantasy. We men new to the RP get angry because women are all screwing like rabbits (well, lots are) and we can’t find our Madonna to marry. And we envy the women, truth be told. But we see women as sluts and despise them. And we want to have the freedom to screw like rabbits. But the women are sluts and that’s unappealing. It can make you nuts.

    My view now is that a man who wants a woman of good character has to train her to have good character. Women don’t come that way straight out of the womb. Women have to be trained. This has been red pill knowledge at least since Shakespeare’s time.

    But we don’t learn Shakespeare any more.

  30. Jacob says:

    The Scold’s Bridle. The title alone speaks volumes.

  31. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Jacob,
    Would you link photos so we could see what you are talking about? As for Audrey Hepburn, she was born and grew up in Belgium under Nazi occupation. By the time she could get enough to eat, it was too late to start a career in dance. She went to Hollywood. One of her best roles was in The Nun’s Story.

    Deep Strength,
    I think you may have brought up something profound. Environment matters.

    Northern Observer,
    “Liberal syphilis”. Excellent! It’s too bad that penicillin for that has yet to be invented.

  32. Anoop says:

    @fuzzie

    Sorry that was a bit confusing. I don’t want to hijack this thread. You can see the photos here:

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2019/10/03/well-behaved-karens-seldom-speak-to-the-manager/#comment-335340

    The photos are about half-way down.

  33. Minesweeper says:

    @theasdgamer says:” Why is there so much anger against women?”

    It’s the law’s dumbass, go through a divorce with kids, and you won’t believe what will happen to you. Never in your wildest dreams did you think it could this bad.

    As they have essentially legislated thievery, adultery and kidnapping for women only, and men pay through the nose to enable this.

    We couldnt give a shit if some random or all are banging whoever. Its the fact that unjust and previously illegal laws are enacted against us with such ferocity you get ripped to pieces in the process, while they get to gloat over your remains.

    Does that help ?

  34. Minesweeper says:

    @fuzziewuzziebear says:”It’s two years old, but I think this is the story that got all the attention.
    https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/14/as-u-s-marriage-rate-hovers-at-50-education-gap-in-marital-status-widens/

    Ahh ok thanks ! Was there a story around somewhere that was it maybe only 70% of USA adults are in any sort of relationship ? Do i remember wrong ?

    Wouldn’t surprise me 😀

  35. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Minesweeper,
    We do have to be careful about statistics. I have been taken in by people guessing. Still, something as fundamental as the marriage rate being on a long, inexorable decline should be setting off alarm bells somewhere.

  36. Minesweeper says:

    @fuzziewuzziebear says:”Still, something as fundamental as the marriage rate being on a long, inexorable decline should be setting off alarm bells somewhere.”

    Those blue pilled : confused bells
    Feminists and those who want to see the total destruction of “teh patriarchy(family)” : celebratory bells.

    The only thing that annoys them is that it isn’t at zero yet.

  37. lastmod says:

    Actually, most men who divorce or separate are the ones who get married again, so I don’t think there is “that much anger against women”

    It’s more on the Incel end, and the men who were told to put their hope / faith / all their chips in Game / PUA, and for most men who drank that cup “chose poorly” and ended up in worse shape than before. Another group are the former christians like myself who were told to become “jesus 100%” saw the reality that christian women don’t want “100% jesus” they want a “100% jesus from a man who happens to be very attractive and / or has the ego the size of god”

    I am not angry at women for this. I understand their nature better than the reddest of the red pill if truth be told. I am more upset at the man-o-sphere who straight up lied to me. At least with women, I see by their actions since hitting puberty how they have always behaved.

    Now men who supposedly are “helping / equipping” other men are behaving just as badly as them. Maybe that’s the betrayal I am more upset at.

    Of course MGTOW……..and one cannot pigeonhole this group. Some are monk, some are players, some don’t care, some do……….its probably the best representation of men out there for the most part. Some are of faith. Some are not.

  38. Minesweeper says:

    @lastmod says: “I am more upset at the man-o-sphere who straight up lied to me.

    Now men who supposedly are “helping / equipping” other men are behaving just as badly as them. Maybe that’s the betrayal I am more upset at.”

    Care to expand ? Who lied to you and about what ?

  39. lastmod says:

    Minesweeper……..you heard all about it on another blog. If you read back here even on this one…..you’ll find it.

    Hence why most run of the mill men out there……want nothing to do with “men of faith” its not because they are blue pilled.

    There is no room for helping men. It has plenty of room to discuss Game, commenting about how ugly women are, who we should hate this week in the faith concerning their ministry, MGTOW being a bunch of losers, and there are still plenty of really great christian women / no there are not / yes there are….marriage rates plummeting, using Frame…but there are no good women / yes there / no there are not.

    the opinion seems to change weekly. Pushing game. Pushing frame. Raising men like Roosh to Saint status because he became a ‘christian” (the kind that bow to icons), but never renouncing his past…

    Chest thumping about who is the biggest monkey, the smartest, and who can put down someone quicker than someone else….

    but we’re all about jesus…………………….

    these men can f*ck off.

  40. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Feminists do have a problem with perceiving the future.

  41. lastmod says:

    Besides…..what I have to say and what I think amounts to about zero. So me elaborating really is useless. Hey, I was told that I was ‘genetically beta’ so what I say or think should not even warrant a response from you in the first place.

  42. Minesweeper says:

    @lastmod, not at all, I searched both here and at dal’s place for your comments – using your name and found that the search box only searches for the OP.

    If you can link to your comments I will read them. Dont be offended if ive come across you before, my memory had some issues which are now lessening.

  43. Joe2 says:

    like myself who were told to become “jesus 100%” saw the reality that christian women don’t want “100% jesus” they want a “100% jesus from a man who happens to be very attractive and / or has the ego the size of god”

    That’s also been my experience based on participation in a large church singles group, except “100% Jesus” would be too restrictive. The Christian women would accept “10% Jesus” from a man who had such attributes or who was “worldly successful.” In other words, they said they wanted a Christian man, but their scale was tipped or skewed heavily to the worldly side.

  44. Lastmod / jason has been placed into moderation for saying the same things after having been previously warned in past posts.

    It’s clear that commenting here is not helping. I’m all for some venting, but it’s gotta stop somewhere.

  45. Minesweeper says:

    @Joe2, tbh do woman really want even 10% Jesus in their man ? I’ve found women really dont really care unless it impacts their social standing.

    After all, its not common for a woman to show the same level of commitment to God as your average man does, this is as they are meant to commit to the man – which if course they cant do either 😀

    Very few men i understand have fellowship with their spouse, its just not something women want really. You can see why churches until recently were split down the middle. Men really can fellowship together with God, some women can but its really not universal, maybe a select group can.

    In my humble and limited experience.

  46. feeriker says:

    “I bathe in your wine-stained tears, bitch.”

    Really the only reasonable and deserving response to any of these articles, the reading of which grows more tedious and pointless with each passing week.

  47. Jacob says:

    Very few men i understand have fellowship with their spouse, its just not something women want really.

    I’ve observed this also. If both are Christian one would hope they pray together regularly, say at meal times and/or before bed, and/or discuss some aspect of Scripture when relevant to some issue they’re dealing with, but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule. The practical needs of raising a family make it difficult to fellowship with a spouse as one would with a brother. There’s so little private time together. There’s also a constant need to show grace when the kids or one or the other spouse fails to live up to expectations. The spiritual battle is so very often a rage against the enemy within.

    Fellowship with a brother is more of an ‘into the breach we go’ kind of relationship. It’s an act of often very calm and valorous sacrifice against an enemy who’s ‘out there’ somewhere. In theory these battles are the same, but they feel quite different in practice.

    Modern churchian marriage could be described as an ‘the enemy of my enemy is my friend’ situation. An allegiance by treaty. The treaty may still impel both parties to go willingly into the breach together but with expectations, conditions and clauses. There’s not a lot of room for valor or honor. What kind of fellowship has threatpoints?

    I’m not sure the headship-helpmeet dynamic could be called ‘fellowship’. Fellowship connotes an equality that isn’t there. Perhaps our expectation that Christian husbands and wives should be in ‘fellowship’ together puts unhelpful pressure on a relationship that was not created to function that way.

  48. theasdgamer says:

    I’m curious what Jason meant by: “There is no room for helping men.”

    People have offered him help and he turned up his nose at the help. I wonder what he expected the “help” to look like?

  49. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Blogger PA, who I found through Keoni Galt’s aggregator, wrote a post on this piece from the Daily Mail. I just got through reading it. This princess went on thirty dates over a weekend and didn’t like any of the men. That’s not hypergamy, that is being rejection happy. While the piece may be completely fabricated, it does show a side of modern women that men are well advised to stay away from.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7547449/Woman-videos-going-30-DATES-one-weekend.html
    Does this provide a partial answer to the question of where all the good men have gone?

  50. m says:

    @FWB, oh come on look what happened to the poor thing :

    “This experiment left the woman exhausted because she went on nine dates or more per day to complete the goal
    Although she met some potential men, most of the dates were lackluster ”

    Pooor darling, im suprised she didnt call for an ambulance.Why werent these men arrested for being lackluster ? (Fast forward 20 years)

    Thankfully tho, it appears she turned up late for her first date with some guys jizz still inside her, so the weekend it wasnt a complete waste.

  51. theasdgamer says:

    “Does this provide a partial answer to the question of where all the good men have gone?”

    no…you can blame women for being overweight, for being liberal, and for being stupid, but not for their hard-wired sexuality…you can blame women’s parents for failing to train women not to be feral…

    …and men have to take the blame for pedestalizing women and failing to figure out women’s sexuality…for being insecure and failing to enforce their boundaries…for failing to create sexual chemistry by being fun and engaging and teasing and sexual…you can blame men for treating women like nuns…in the article, that last bit probably created the problem of a lack of chemistry…

  52. theasdgamer says:

    It doesn’t take a genius to realize that the article presupposed a silly mission…she obviously was gonna tire after two dates each day…the woman knew within five minutes if there was chemistry…it takes longer to ascertain relationship material…one hour is not enough time…mostly, this was a puff piece…

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