On creeps and romantics and obedience to God

I don’t think I’ve made a post specifically on this, but I’ve discussed it a bunch in the comments and book. This usually helps a lot of men understand at least some of their marital woes. As we all know, wives can be rebellious even if it was Jesus leading the relationship/marriage.

The creep and romantic dynamic is thus:

  • If an unattractive man gives a woman flowers, he is a creep
  • If an attractive man gives a woman flowers, he is romantic

This also corresponds to marriage in an almost predictable fashion:

  • If an unattractive husband gives his wife flowers, he is seen as trying to curry favor with her and the wife may get even more dissatisfied and discontent.
  • If an attractive husband gives his wife flowers, he is so charming, sweet, and the wife gives him that “I wanna do you” look.

This can be expanded out to several more things that a husband does for her:

  • If a wife complains about laundry and the unattractive husband does it, he is seen as trying to curry favor with her and the wife may get even more dissatisfied and discontent
  • If the wife complains about the dishes or any other housework and the unattractive husband does it, he is seen as trying to curry favor with her and the wife may get even more dissatisfied and discontent
  • The one-up-manship of many things like engagement proposals or expensive dinners or acquiescing to demands.

This is the total futility of trying to love a wife by catering to her feelings. Her feelings are not something that can be bought, negotiated, or otherwise transacted by doing things for her.

It’s really amazing how the exact same action is interpreted in different ways by women and wives. Of course, the same exact scenario in reverse could be true of an overweight woman/wife versus a fit woman/wife wearing lingerie. A husband may get turned off by the former but turned on by the latter.

One of the mods on RPChristians reddit has a good analogy about this: hardware or software issue?

Most of the issues with “hardware” tend to stem from a lack of care or complacency about one’s own life:

  • A man may not be engaged with His mission for God and putting God first
  • He has a lack of care about his own spiritual life and is neglecting God’s marital roles and responsibilities toward her (to be the head and to love her toward sanctification).
  • He may have gone from muscular and fit to overweight or obese during the course of a relationship
  • He may have become a “yes dear” type of man over the course of the marriage
  • He could have gotten lazy over the course of the marriage and given in to lack of discipline over various areas of his life or work

All of these deficits in lack of care or complacency are things that typically make a man less attractive. Instead of embodying the traits that are attractive to women such as being confident, charismatic, masculine, ambitious leader, he is instead into an unconfident, bumbling his words and indecisive, feminized, complacent follower. Instead of being someone she respects, he is acting unrespectable.

A few things of note:

  • Obviously, if none of these or few of these things are true, you could just be dealing with a straight up rebellious wife which is certainly the case when culture and even the Church, friends, and family can sow discord in marriages nowadays.
  • Yes, it’s true that while wives should still respect their husbands when they act unrespectable, it’s true that it makes it significantly more difficult and they often don’t. It’s a stumbling block. Same with a wife that gets obese or constantly disrespects her husband and expects her husband to want to do her a lot. It’s a stumbling block.
  • This is the common is versus ought fallacy from the previous post that many in the Church make: because God wants to us to be godly, they think that godliness must be sexy. It isn’t. Just because we know wives ought to respect their husbands doesn’t mean they do, and it should not prevent a husband from fulfilling his own marital roles and responsibilities and be filled with the fruit of the Spirit in the face of a rebellious wife.

It is only those things done without any transactional mindsets that truly bring about any influence to change things. The focus should always to be on honoring God with what we do and not on trying to buy or alter someone as changing someone invites disaster. A husband that gets caught up in covert contracts (“if I only do this, she’ll come around or give me more sex”) or the mindset of “tit for tat” whether in a good way or bad way will always come to failure.

All this is to say you only have full control over yourself which means you can only wholly change yourself to be more like God. Focus on obeying God because He is the one we answer to in the end. Make sure your life is defined by excellence toward Him and strive for “well done good and faithful servant.” This leads to your own spiritual, physical, emotional, and mental transformation that God can use to influence a rebellious wife. Not because of anything you did or are doing for her but because of who you are becoming in Christ. Out of the heart flows actions that allow transformation and influence.

Attraction, like faith, is not primarily based on any external thing but by the reflection of your identity. If you strive to do everything you do as you do for Christ, that becomes visible externally.

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11 Responses to On creeps and romantics and obedience to God

  1. calilifenow says:

    I thought your blog title “masculinity and Christianity” would bring up deeper topics of how to be a man and a Christ follower. As a woman, I thought it would be an interesting read to understand what males go through. But, honestly you just write about shallow, basic issues that you set up, and you are constantly speaking negatively about women and their actions/attitudes. What the heck does that have to do with masculinity and Christianity?

    Why would you think an attractive man is romantic and an unattractive man is a creep?? Perhaps build a better argument…?
    The issue is not whether he is attractive or not. Obviously at some point the wife thought he was attractive, otherwise she wouldn’t have married him. The true issue lies in continuing to nourish your marriage. (Ephesians 5:28-29) He must continue to nourish his wife, because they are one and give himself for her as Christ did for the church.

    Your posts come off as very mysogynestic. Maybe that’s not what you are intending, but I wouldn’t want men reading your blog getting the wrong impression or prejudices about women in a godly marriage.

  2. @ calilifenow

    I thought your blog title “masculinity and Christianity” would bring up deeper topics of how to be a man and a Christ follower. As a woman, I thought it would be an interesting read to understand what males go through. But, honestly you just write about shallow, basic issues that you set up, and you are constantly speaking negatively about women and their actions/attitudes. What the heck does that have to do with masculinity and Christianity?

    Assuming you’re not trolling.

    This is a common topic that is to be addressed for marriages where the wife “loves her husband but is not in love with him.”

    Given that 70% of divorces are initiated by women and Christian marriages are nearly at the same rate, it’s definitely an issue that affects Christian men.

  3. Sharkly says:

    Calilifenow,
    I think you missed the point about women finding the same behavior either creepy or romantic depending on how attractive the doer is.

    This site isn’t misogynistic. I know of a site that is really appalling to most women.
    The operator doesn’t believe women are in the image of God, but says they should be under subjection and shamefaced instead. He thinks he was made superior to every woman on the planet! Here’s a sample of how demeaning he gets:
    https://laf443259520.wordpress.com/2019/09/22/the-natural-use-of-the-woman/

  4. Joe2 says:

    Why would you think an attractive man is romantic and an unattractive man is a creep?? Perhaps build a better argument…?

    I will also assume you are not a troll.

    That said, I will have to confirm that, in general, women consider attractive men to be romantic and desirable while unattractive men are considered to be losers and undesirable.

    Take a look at any women’s magazine or fashion magazine. The advertising uses male models who are attractive to sell their products. Why is that? It’s to imply their product is desirable like the attractive men in the ads. Don’t you want to wear that new dress while sharing an intimate romantic dinner with an attractive man like in the ad? Otherwise, the ads would use any unattractive man.

    Hollywood is similar. Leading men are attractive and desirable. Unattractive men are relegated to comedies who are at the receiving end of jokes or to roles horror movies.

    I changed my assumption. You are a troll.

  5. Jonadab-the-Rechabite says:

    Jesus was attractive to some and creepy to others. Healing on the sabbath was off putting to some and to others a marvelous wonder. The point is that the opinion of a wife does not validate or invalidate the man or his actions. He should not alter his course to win her admiration, admiration that she should already have to God’s appointed authority over her. Her judgement of him as loving or as a bungling creep should not change his actions except in the latter to correct her contempt and lead her to repentance. He ought to continue to live his life unto the Lord not unto the wife’s happiness. She can either respond to him with reverence and obedience or she can respond to him in sin. Her response flows from her heart not his actions.

    One cannot attach good fruit to a bad tree and hope the tree changes its nature. Good fruit comes from a good tree and so a wife’s gratitude, utility, admiration, respect and desire (G.U.A.R.D. As in guard her heart) for her husband come from her heart that is meek and a quite spirit. Her response of “creep” or “lord” reflects her heart much more than his actions. We spend to much effort on trying to attach sweet fruit onto bitter trees when the real cultivation work is changing the nature of the tree. This is why a loving act by a husband may trigger a wife’s contempt. He may have failed a fitness test by acquiesce proving he is week leader or be praised for his unselfish and generous compromise. The wife alone determines his fitness grade in her mind. Stop playing the rigged game, trying to win a wife’s affection, focus on Christ. She will either follow joyfully in humility or grumble in contemptuous ingratitude. The same reactions were seen from Israel and the church; sometimes humble adoration some times stiff necked rebellion. Are we to judge the sin of Israel as a failure of the Lord? Should the prophet Jeremiah be graded on the response of those who ignored him and left him to die in cistern? So likewise should the husband be graded by the metric of his wife’s happiness or desire for her husband? I think not.

    Your mileage may vary.

  6. @ Jonadab

    Jesus was attractive to some and creepy to others. Healing on the sabbath was off putting to some and to others a marvelous wonder. The point is that the opinion of a wife does not validate or invalidate the man or his actions. He should not alter his course to win her admiration, admiration that she should already have to God’s appointed authority over her. Her judgement of him as loving or as a bungling creep should not change his actions except in the latter to correct her contempt and lead her to repentance. He ought to continue to live his life unto the Lord not unto the wife’s happiness. She can either respond to him with reverence and obedience or she can respond to him in sin. Her response flows from her heart not his actions.

    Completely agreed.

    If a husband’s purpose of doing things is His wife and not God, it is the same as a transactional mindset. He is doing it in order to change her. That doesn’t usually go over very well.

    God needs to be first. This is not to say that some motivation (and compassion) should not be for the wife as God’s marital roles and responsibilities are toward your wife, but obedience to God must be at the forefront.

  7. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I want to thank her for commenting. Women really are that condescending.

  8. Jacob says:

    Responding to drive-by commenters is usually a waste of time and effort. They’re generally not interested in the ongoing flow of the conversation or in digging around the archives to get a better handle on where the blogger’s coming from. If they’re women expressing concern for imaginary others, they’re generally doing so because the running solipsism in their heads has been triggered in some way and a correction order must be issued personally by them lest God’s plan for men and women comes to a screeching halt. It’s as if they believe bo-one else is capable of discernment.

    @calilifenow

    You are a foolish woman. Read the archives thoroughly before making assertions about what this blog is or isn’t about. Have your Bible open and ask your husband if you don’t understand anything.

  9. Pingback: A core understanding of game, and its interactions with our purpose and sanctification | Christianity and masculinity

  10. nellperkins says:

    I too found Calilifenow’s comment confusing. To be clear and blunt, I too am a drive-by commenter. In my case because I’m pathologically shy and it extends even to the internet.

    I am a 58-year-old Christian woman, formerly feminist and probably won’t be abandoning many of my former feminist positions. However, it very much seems to me that your post was merely a Christian meditation on “healthy boundaries,” advice to do the right thing even when your woman’s doing the wrong thing, counsel to let her go her own way even when she’s completely wrong and loving her anyway. It seemed to me that you were saying you believe men will be more attractive to women if they behave that way. Trust me, you’re right. Women do not like needy men and all you’re doing is making specifically Christian meditations on that fact. Nowhere do I see any advice to men to try to browbeat, nag, manipulate, or beat their wives into doing as they ought or as their husbands think they ought. On the contrary, what you’ve written here is beautiful and you should be commended. Thank you.

  11. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    nell perkins,
    Thanks for trying.

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