Double standards around sex: the purest example of the feminization of Christianity

From Reddit’s sub “Christian Marriage.”

Women, please don’t deny your husbands — 0 upvotes, 50% upvoted

Here’s the post:

Sex for a husband is so essential. Please don’t undermine how important that is to a husband who desires his wife, but doesn’t get any romance. Keep your marriage alive!

And of course, the top few answers:

  • My husband is compassionate about my medical problems. Sex is not all we have and it’s not the most essential. Our love and relationship are much deeper.
  • Sorry but this is not great advice. I was told by a female Christian counselor that “under no circumstances should a Christian wife ever say no to her husband for sex”. So as much as I thought that was some bogus, 18th Century, misogynist advice, I tried it. I did it whenever he wanted with a good attitude. My husband still cheated on me multiple times and watched porn despite having sex with me multiple times a week. Don’t make women feel it’s THEIR DUTY to keep the husband happy. Are you kidding me? This is actually some “wisdom” people are giving out on a Christian sub? Maybe instead the advice should be that both the husband and wife need to focus on other aspects of intimacy so the wife wants to have sex. Some women experience pain, have trauma, don’t feel valued and loved. Why should a woman do this out of OBLIGATION? It should be done out of desire to bring her and her husband closer and same with the husband. Please check your heart and the Bible before spewing this rhetoric.
  • This is definitely true! But also, men, do not forget that you hold part of the key yourselves. Make sure that you act as a man worthy of respect and desire, that you take care of yourself and that you treat her with love and care. No woman wants to have sex with Homer Simpson.
  • One of the hallmarks of being a good husband (or wife, for that matter) is not treating sex as something you are entitled to. Just saying.

Literally a list of excuses why women shouldn’t have sex with their husbands. You know, the one they agreed to “have and to hold.”

Then someone was smart enough to post the opposite one.

Men please don’t deny your wives — 123 upvotes, 100% upvoted

The same exact post but substituted husbands for wives.

Let’s look at the comments.

  • Is this because of the recent post for wives to not deny their husbands? Lol. Both statements are true and need to be heard. I understand that some partners have lower libidos, but the rejection is very painful for the partner being denied. This does a lot of damage in a marriage. Unfortunately, I have found that talking about sex is a little taboo in the Christian community. My husband is still uncomfortable talking about sex, and we’ve been married for 8 years, together for 11.
  • First step, men – stop looking at porn.
  • Amen!
  • Thank you; I needed this. We’ve got a Cold War in our home right now. I’m trying to remain strong, but temptation is ever-present.
  • If you insist
  • This is very important. I went through a depression period. I stopped paying attention to my wife and now I’m paying for it. It’s not her fault, but mine. She did everything – even dyed her hair blonde (although I never asked) so I would notice her. I was too preoccupied with myself to even notice she was looking for attention. We are still together and working on things, but it’s hard. I appreciate any prayers my way. But men – take note of this!

Men being told to stop looking at porn, and men owning up to denying their wives.

Can’t make this stuff up. Literally the same command to both the husbands and the wives to have sex with each other but two drastically different responses from “Christians.”

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46 Responses to Double standards around sex: the purest example of the feminization of Christianity

  1. Phoenix says:

    Here’s the difference….men want sex all the time; every day in most cases. Women want sex when they ovulate and their hormones increase their libido….once a month. Most women couldn’t care less about sex the rest of the time. So men = sex every day, women = sex once a month (and not at all after menopause). It’s all part of Gods design, right? So you figure it out.

  2. Phoenix says:

    In other words, women just don’t always want a man’s body part jammed into her with all the accompanying sucking, sweating, moaning, thrusting, etc, etc, etc. And to top it off, she’s told to be enthusiastic! Act like the porn star of his dreams even though you feel like you’re going to vomit.
    Yes, women want sex about once a month when biology dictates she can conceive a child. Again, all part of God’s design. When will men get it?

  3. Bruce says:

    Women routinely fornicate with men and enjoy fornication with men at all times of the month not just a few days per month. Unfortunately, many (most?) do not enjoy marital coitus with the men that will actually commit to them in marriage. Too bad the top 20% of men won’t marry them.

    Sex is a primary incentive, perhaps THE primary incentive for a man to take on a wife. It’s what men can’t give you. Otherwise you could just enjoy companionship and share expenses with male friends (with whom you have more common interests and who you understand better). You wouldn’t have to be a beast of burden at a crappy job for 40+ years of your life (a pretty raw deal compared to having to have sex with your husband for 15 minutes a few times a week). Never knew any man who expected a porn star for a wife. Most men are satisfied with thinking the woman just wants to have sex with them not some elaborate porn star performance.

    If women don’t want to have sex with a man on a regular basis then they shouldn’t marry men. That’s how men are. Physical need plus emotions of wanting to be loved, desired wanted are all tied up with sex (at least for the Betas who will actually commit to women). Worse yet, many women signal interest in the man and often pursue the man. To do this and then deny sex (except when she ovulates – in other words when she is horny enough to settle for sex with him) is to defraud the man of this entire life. No wonder they get a bad outcome.

  4. Pingback: Explaining the Double Standards around Sex | Σ Frame

  5. Phoenix says:

    “If women don’t want to have sex with a man on a regular basis they shouldn’t marry them.”
    Well, isn’t that in fact THE problem? Blog after blog after blog written about women not having sex with their husbands. Why is that? Men think it’s because the woman is using sex as a reward/punishment and that may be accurate some of the time but it’s not the biggest reason. Women just aren’t interested in sex as I said in my previous post. And they can’t just agree to have sex with their spouse, they have to WANT it in order to make him happy. Unfortunately you can’t demand desire; “you will have sex with me and you will like it!” Men want sex all the time so they just don’t understand why their spouse isn’t just as interested. So even if the woman has sex on a regular basis to keep her husband happy, he’s not happy if it’s duty sex; No duty sex! I demand you desire me! So what’s the answer?

  6. Paul says:

    @Phoenix “Most women couldn’t care less about sex the rest of the time. So men = sex every day, women = sex once a month (and not at all after menopause). It’s all part of Gods design, right? So you figure it out.”

    It’s not difficult to figure out, because God has already spelled it out for us (1Cor7:2-5)

    “But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.”

    Let’s summarize:
    1. to avoid the temptation to sexual immorality, man AND woman should marry. This implies they should have sex with one another
    2. both man and woman have the right to sex (conjugal rights)
    3. a man has authority over his wife’s body (for sexual gratification), i.e. he is boss. A wife has authority over her husband’s body (for sexual gratification)
    4. you should not deprive each other of sex
    5. only if you BOTH agree, you can pause having sex, and ONLY for a short period of time.

    Combined: have sex with your spouse, if your spouse so desires.

  7. Phoenix says:

    “Have sex with your spouse, if your spouse so desires.” I agree but you can’t demand that the other spouse desire you. Many women are not attracted to their spouse. Yes, they were at one time but no longer. And they wish they were still attracted as it would make things much easier. If your spouse (male or female) has gained 75 pounds, you might not find him/her attractive any longer….but you still need to have sex when that spouse wants it. That’s what Scripture says; there’s no getting out of it because your spouse is now fat and unattractive. So close your eyes, grit your teeth and get it over with. And this situation, or one similar, is extremely common.

  8. Bruce says:

    I already said what we should do about this. Women shouldn’t marry men since in the future, having sex with him will make her feel like vomiting. This will affect his happiness and, thus, her happiness. Women should recognize that marriage will lead to unhappiness since what he wants and needs to feel loved makes her physically nauseous. We should stop pretending and lying about these things. MGTOW and WGTOW. If you’re a Christian, celibacy. If not and you desire children, women should get impregnated by whoever they want and marry another woman who will understand her better.

  9. Bruce says:

    RE: desire. Absolutely – “you can’t negotiate desire.”

    It’s probably the case that most men don’t demand elaborate displays of desire. Nevertheless, I suppose many women can’t hide their revulsion. Again, best solution is to make men and women aware of these differences and for people not to marry or at least to counsel them on the extreme risk of unhappiness and failure for both sexes. Celibacy is a higher state for both sexes.

  10. anon says:

    Whoever trolled that reddit did a good job. Some of the men who read may have had their eyes opened a bit.

  11. Phoenix says:

    Bruce, I agree that in some cases, it’s best not to marry and people should think long and hard about it. But the reality is, most people DO marry and then find that things change and they are not physically attracted to their spouse any longer. That’s a big problem and a hard one to resolve since we’ve already agreed that you can’t negotiate desire. One can pray about it, get counseling, etc but if that attraction isn’t there then it isn’t there. But you’re married already so you need to suck it up and have sex with your spouse. I have never suggested that you TELL your spouse that you aren’t physically attracted to them anymore; you need to find a way to make it work.
    My point in all of this was that men want sex way more often than women do and if there’s an issue with attraction to your spouse, sex becomes more of a challenge. Women aren’t using sex as a reward/punishment as often as men think they are. Men like to think that because it puts the blame on the woman; I don’t think any man wants to think his wife doesn’t desire him so it’s much easier to say she is withholding as a punishment. I think, in all honesty, that this is truly a dilemma with no easy answer. Perhaps coming to an agreement of how often to have sex and then following thT is the answer. Not very romantic but maybe it’s not supposed to be.

  12. Anonymous Reader says:

    Phoenix
    Here’s the difference….men want sex all the time; every day in most cases.

    Yes, and in the context of this blog … God made them that way.
    Think about the implications of that.

    Women want sex when they ovulate and their hormones increase their libido….once a month. Most women couldn’t care less about sex the rest of the time.

    You might be projecting a bit, or rationalizing. in any event, I doubt you have the authority to speak for all women.

  13. Bruce says:

    The wife and I don’t have that problem but…

    A friend at work says his wife wants it only around that time of the month.

    Many of wife’s friends in a Christian mom’s group don’t want it at all. The wife assumes that the husbands must not be very good at it. I don’t think this is the case. I think that most women aren’t particuarly attracted to most men and have to settle when they marry. I think the beta male is the consolation prize when they lose to other women in the marriage market. No one wants the crappy consolation prize. I think this was always a problem but is amplified by several contemporary factors: low status of males in our society, lack of female dependence on males (related to low male status), etc. The average man is simply much more attracted to the average woman than the average woman is to the average man – don’t know the solution other than don’t marry. For those married, If you’re Catholic, divorce isn’t an option. If you’re Protestant I don’t know since there’s no unified position. If you are secular, the way out is divorce – no point in being with someone who is disgusted by what makes you feel loved and wanted.

    I wish things weren’t this way.

    From what I can tell, pre-marriage, women aren’t particularly restrictive in terms of the time of month they want that. I don’t know if that’s because they are free to sleep with the men they are actually attracted to (who won’t marry them) or if it’s a way to get a man to commit (sex freely given). Maybe both?

  14. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    This is the dark side of hypergamy at work. As women find only more exclusive men attractive, their choice narrows. This is having a profound effect on marriage. In 1960 seventy percent of adults were married. In 2016, the last year that I have numbers for, it fell through fifty percent. My gut is telling me that the drop is accelerating.
    The problem with all this is that it is female led and driven. Any effort on men’s part is not going to effect much.

  15. @ Phoenix

    In other words, women just don’t always want a man’s body part jammed into her with all the accompanying sucking, sweating, moaning, thrusting, etc, etc, etc. And to top it off, she’s told to be enthusiastic! Act like the porn star of his dreams even though you feel like you’re going to vomit.

    Yes, women want sex about once a month when biology dictates she can conceive a child. Again, all part of God’s design. When will men get it?

    Don’t marry someone you don’t want to have sex with.

    My wife and I have sex almost everyday and she loves it. Probably because we are actually attracted to each other, and make sure to put God’s commands first.

  16. Phoenix says:

    Well, Deep Strength…lucky you. I’ll bet most men who read these blogs are not having sex almost every day. It’s a lot easier to put God’s commands first (for sex) if you are attracted to each other. I’ll bet putting His commands first might be a bit tougher if you and your wife aren’t attracted to each other, right? But since you’re having nearly daily sex and both love it, you are certainly in the minority. As I said in my post, more than once actually, people are generally attracted to each other when they get married and then, for whatever reason, they are not. That’s where things become difficult and it’s not the easy to put God’s commandments first like you and your wife do. Certainly you can understand that.
    And Anonymous Reader; of course I don’t speak for all women but I’m pretty darn sure I speak for a lot of them.

  17. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    What I see happening is that women, in their selfishness and greed, are going to kill marriage. This will be a setback for them, since they benefit the most from marriage. Whatever the outcome, be assured that men will be blamed.

  18. @ Phoenix

    Well, Deep Strength…lucky you. I’ll bet most men who read these blogs are not having sex almost every day. It’s a lot easier to put God’s commands first (for sex) if you are attracted to each other. I’ll bet putting His commands first might be a bit tougher if you and your wife aren’t attracted to each other, right? But since you’re having nearly daily sex and both love it, you are certainly in the minority.

    It’s not lucky me.

    I’ve detailed all I did on this blog since I was single to ensure that any potential wife would not be swayed by the world or the false teachings of Churchianity to obey the Scriptures. Preparation and obedience to God is the key to success most of the time (not always, but God’s principles often lead to success).

    As I said in my post, more than once actually, people are generally attracted to each other when they get married and then, for whatever reason, they are not. That’s where things become difficult and it’s not the easy to put God’s commandments first like you and your wife do. Certainly you can understand that.

    That’s exactly why we are here. There are obvious reasons why they are not.

    Obesity for both men and women is a big one. Most people aren’t attracted to overweight/obese people, so if spouses become overweight or obese that’s going to decrease their desire to want to have sex. My wife and I both recognize this so we eat as healthy as possible and workout to keep our bodies looking attractive for each other.

    Lesser known (Sadly) for Christians are the Biblical marital roles and responsibilities. If the wife is acting like the head instead of the husband, that’s going to kill both of their desire to have sex with each other. She will end up nagging and mothering him which kills her respect for him and he will end up feeling disrespected.

    Of course, many modern “Christians” and the Church are complicit in caving to culture and do not actually believe in prescribing what the Bible says… so you have so many Christians not having sex and wondering why.

    This post also addresses the elephant in the room of not calling out women’s sins the same as men. Chivalry is complicit in this as the Church as demonstrated taking it in. Men hate calling out women who are sinning because it doesn’t feel good.

    There are other factors as well, but these are the big elephants in the room as I’ve discussed for years on this blog.

  19. Anonymous Reader says:

    Bruce
    I think that most women aren’t particuarly attracted to most men and have to settle when they marry. I think the beta male is the consolation prize when they lose to other women in the marriage market. No one wants the crappy consolation prize.

    This is a significant result from the standard feminist life track that is taught to most girls in the US, that results in them marrying at the age of 27. They are indeed settling for the consolation prize, while “the one that got away” is still living somewhere in their head. She’s unconsciously comparing the man she has with the man she wanted / wants.

    From what I can tell, pre-marriage, women aren’t particularly restrictive in terms of the time of month they want that. I don’t know if that’s because they are free to sleep with the men they are actually attracted to (who won’t marry them) or if it’s a way to get a man to commit (sex freely given). Maybe both?

    All of the above and other things. There’s a real price that women pay emotionally for promiscuity, and the bill comes due over and over again for years. There’s also female contentiousness. Having snagged a man who was good enough, often women start looking more critically at what they’ve gotten and all the faults become more visible. There could be a good reason for chastity prior to marriage, not just theologically (leave that up to DS) but psychologically.

    Phoenix
    I’ll bet most men who read these blogs are not having sex almost every day.

    A lot of men find their way into parts of the manosphere via search terms like “Why won’t my wife have sex with me?” That doesn’t negate Deep Strength’s blessing, he worked to find and marry that woman.

    It’s a lot easier to put God’s commands first (for sex) if you are attracted to each other.

    It’s a lot easier to put the command to “love your wife” into action if she acts lovable. But if you actually read the text, there’s no escape clause. There’s no “Love your wife, except when she’s being bad”. It is unconditional. So is “wives, respect your husband”. But somehow very few churches teach that part of the text, for some reason.

    I’ll bet putting His commands first might be a bit tougher if you and your wife aren’t attracted to each other, right?

    I’ll bet that obeying the 1st and 2nd commandments are a bit tougher some days, too. God’s not living up to your expectations, so…what do you do? You might want to think a bit on the line you are following.

    But since you’re having nearly daily sex and both love it, you are certainly in the minority. As I said in my post, more than once actually, people are generally attracted to each other when they get married and then, for whatever reason, they are not.

    Yeah, there’s some verifiable, demonstrable, testable reasons for that loss of attraction. Much of it is the responsibility of the man, some of it is the responsibility of the woman. A commenter named Oscar who used to be a regular on another blog once observed that he and his wife both understood they were to build each other up, not tear each other down. This isn’t taught much either, as far as I can tell.

    That’s where things become difficult and it’s not the easy to put God’s commandments first like you and your wife do. Certainly you can understand that.

    So when the going gets tough, it’s ok to just quit, is that what you are saying?

    And Anonymous Reader; of course I don’t speak for all women but I’m pretty darn sure I speak for a lot of them.

    Lol, I knew you’d say that. So how many women have you ever dated? Broken up with? Been married to? A man learns a lot about women from experience; good, bad and very bitterly ugly. But we do learn.

    Hey, you should look at the previous thread, I think you’d like Nat and Cat, the ball busting Canadian girls.

  20. Phoenix says:

    Well, DS, you seem to have all the answers.
    Just for the record, I’ve been married to the same wonderful man for 28 years; got married at 20 when I graduated college. No problem with our sex lives at all although there were some rocky times in the past. I was trying to explain why women don’t want to have sex all the time but you happily married, having a lots of sex guys seem to know it all…so see ya.

  21. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Phoenix,
    Here is the video that Anonymous Reader suggested. Strap yourself in and have tummy medicine nearby. They are not nice.

  22. @ Phoenix

    Well, DS, you seem to have all the answers.

    I was trying to explain why women don’t want to have sex all the time but you happily married, having a lots of sex guys seem to know it all…so see ya.

    Here’s the thing.

    The Bible has the answers. Don’t deny each other and be unselfish when it comes to sex. Be excellent in all you do for the glory of God. Yes, that includes factors like health, attractiveness, and being considerate of how you affect your spouse physically, mentally/emotionally, and spiritually.

    Yes, women in general have lower sex drives. But yes, these things can be overcome with being wise about how to handle them in the context of the Bible.

    The main problem that men and women and husbands and wives don’t want to obey it. And, as these comments demonstrate, self professing Christians want to make excuses why they can’t do it or use exceptions as the rule rather than do what the Bible says.

  23. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It may help Phoenix if she could talk to a woman her age about dating at her age.

  24. Anon says:

    This is amongst the top reasons I did not marry a Western woman. Rebellion is seemingly in their DNA. Is it culture that sets oriental women apart, alone? Excuse the bluntness, but my wife wants sex more often than I do, and I considered myself to have a high libido. This on top of a willingness to submit and respect her husband. They just utterly put Western women to shame.

    I don’t see any reason to suffer a Western woman. I decline to call them genuine Christians. Despite being few in number, Christian women exist outside of the West and do not pick and choose which parts of the Bible to follow. In a lot of places, just being Christian puts their lives at risk. Faking it for virtue signalling doesn’t exist.

    I don’t feel it necessary to blame men for the actions of women. There are cucks which white knight, but the majority of men just refuse to go to jail in attempt to put Western women in their place. When the system collapses, men will restore order and reverse the feminist degeneracy.

  25. Men don’t get the sex they want because they are not masculine enough to earn it.

    Check this out: 7 Reasons Christian Men Get No Sex – https://spartanchristianity.com/7-reasons-why-christian-men-get-no-sex/

  26. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I just had a terrible thought. Wives who refuse sex have to know that they are hurting their husbands. They just take more pleasure in hurting than they would from having sex. Rejection for women is an exercise in power.

  27. Anonymous Reader says:

    fuzzie
    It may help Phoenix if she could talk to a woman her age about dating at her age.

    Read more carefully, she claimed to have been married for 28 years, and still married.
    Therefore no need for dating.

    Phoenix is just another middle aged woman who stumbled over something she didn’t understand. It happens all the time.

  28. Anonymous Reader says:

    spartanchristianity
    Men don’t get the sex they want because they are not masculine enough to earn it.

    “Earn it”? That’s what feminists say. Yet no one expects women to “earn” the love of their husband. The issue of attraction is one that is pretty easy to understand, atheist Athol Kay spelled it out over 10 years ago at the Married Man Sex Life blog (before he let his wife run it). It’s not complicated. Any man who sets out to “earn sex” is attempting to negotiate desire, he’s making himself a supplicant to the pedestal he’s placed his wife upon. He’s making her his top priority. It’s a bad idea for any man, and especially for a churchgoing man.

    Because this is Deep Strength’s blog. Here the discussion is more oriented toward the Bible.

    Sex between husband and wife is required in the Bible. It is a gesture of love and respect from each to the other. In general, performing duties required in the BIble is an act of obedience and respect to God. Refusing to perform those duties is a gesture of contempt towards God.

    So…God doesn’t get the respect he is due because he’s not masculine enough?

    You might want to rethink.

  29. Joe2 says:

    Phoenix wrote,

    No problem with our sex lives at all although there were some rocky times in the past. I was trying to explain why women don’t want to have sex all the time…

    She states that she is married to the same wonderful man for 28 years. That’s great; so they must be doing something right.

    However, Phoenix doesn’t share how she fits in to the paradigm she described. What were the rocky times and how were they resolved? Is she a woman who doesn’t want to have sex all the time and denies her husband? If that’s the case, what is her husband’s reaction when she denies sex? How frequently do they have sex?

    I think these are fair questions which can provide some insight to understanding the issues regarding sex (or lack of sex) in marriage.

  30. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Anonymous Reader,
    I think she understood. She just thought that it was a woman’s prerogative to control when, and how often, sex happened. I thought if she had some idea of what it is like for single women her age, sexual frequency would look like a first world problem.

  31. Anonymous Reader says:

    I think she understood.

    Nah. Women are almost always surprised to find that men can be analytical about women, and it bothers them because we might just get off the ranch.

    She just thought that it was a woman’s prerogative to control when, and how often, sex happened.

    Well, yeah, that’s an extension of Briffault’s Law. Which is not the same as Newton’s laws at all.

    Buuuuut…women’s physical weakness compared to men means they will always seek to control us via various manipulative methods. It’s inherent in them. Just knowing what’s going on is more than half the fight, because women don’t really have that many cards to play, not really. A lot of the brashness and contentiousness that modern women have to offer is coming from a mindset of weakness, they just don’t want us to know it.

  32. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Anonymous Reader,
    Do you think that women ever consider that they may blow it to the point where men won’t play anymore? Because they are and a lot of men feel that way.

  33. Anonymous Reader says:

    Do you think that women ever consider that they may blow it to the point where men won’t play anymore?

    As individuals? Some do.
    As a group? No, not really.

  34. Bruce says:

    thought the male-female difference she illustrated was interesting. If a man isn’t attracted or isn’t in the mood, sex is neutral i.e. not unpleasant, just not great. Apparently, for a woman, it’s disgusting. Pay attention men – don’t marry because the act that makes you feel loved and desired (as well as what is needed for physical release) makes her sick to her stomach.

  35. @anonymous reader.

    I don’t mean” earn” as in trade items for sex. I simply mean that women are attracted to masculine (i.e. successful/high sexual market value) men. By being masculine they “earn it”.

    You don’t negotiate desire because you generate it by being masculine. To suggest that we do nothing and women will be attracted to us is silly. There is not denying that a man who is financially successful or more physically fit is by definition more sexually attractive to women, and those are both things that are earned by working for them. They are earned by trading hours of life for them. It doesn’t matter how you say it, men are going to trade time and resources to be more sexually marketable.

    Conflating the respect we give God and sexual desire is a disconnect of the subjects we are debating.

    And lastly, telling someone to “rethink” is not a great tool for arguing your side. It makes you look arrogant, even though I know you did not mean it that way. Or maybe you did, and that’s why you remained anonymous.

  36. Anonymous Reader says:

    I don’t mean” earn” as in trade items for sex. I simply mean that women are attracted to masculine (i.e. successful/high sexual market value) men. By being masculine they “earn it”.

    You are still confused. First, words like “earn it” have definite meanings, and it’s a poor communication style to use a semantically loaded term then have to explain “No, when I use that term what I mean is….”. This isn’t a blank slate world you are writing into.

    You don’t negotiate desire because you generate it by being masculine.

    That’s a better way of putting it. So just toss out “earn it” and replace that term with “create it” or “generate it”. Because “earn it” is something men hear way too much in the modern world from entitled women, and it has a pretty clear meaning…one version is the “dancing monkey” approach.

    To suggest that we do nothing and women will be attracted to us is silly.

    That’s a strawman. It’s a fallacy, and it weakens your argument. Literally nobody says that.

    There is not denying that a man who is financially successful or more physically fit is by definition more sexually attractive to women, and those are both things that are earned by working for them. They are earned by trading hours of life for them. It doesn’t matter how you say it, men are going to trade time and resources to be more sexually marketable.

    You’re still confused. “Be more sexually marketable” is a Pick Up Artist concept. If followed too far it leads into some strange rabbit trails, such as “lookist” nonsense. Who is this hypothetical man actually doing the work for? If he’s going through all this work just to make himself more sexually marketable, then he’s basically working for women. He’s doing a version of “make Mommy happy”, and that leads nowhere useful. Not in secular terms, for sure not in Bible terms.

    Secular:
    If you read Rational Male, one of his key points is a man should be his own point of reference; he should be doing things for his own improvement, to reach his own goals, and that confidence & competence will attract women. But the women are an ornament to his life, not the goal of his life. If she comes along, fine, if she doesn’t — plenty of fish in the sea.

    Bible:
    If you read Deep Strength’s book he has a similar point of view: a man should be doing things for God, in the Bible context, and in time the confident competence grown in him will likewise attract women. But the point DS makes over and over again is that a man does work for God, not for women. (If I’ve mis-stated this I’m sure DS will correct me).

    Conflating the respect we give God and sexual desire is a disconnect of the subjects we are debating.

    Deeper theology is something I will defer to DS, but you look confused. Men are made by God, therefore our sex drive is God-given; there’s plenty of wrong ways to use / enjoy that sex drive, to be sure, but it’s innate. A wife who respects her husband is obeying the Bible command and therefore showing respect to God. Similarly a husband who loves is wife is obeying the command and showing respect to God.

    And lastly, telling someone to “rethink” is not a great tool for arguing your side.

    I’m not arguing, I’m attempting to instruct. I read through your checklist on your site and it’s ok, but you really don’t have to re-invent the wheel, other men have given a lot of thought to this over the last 20+ years. It’s good to take a blank-sheet approach to problem solving but it is easier when you are aware of the “prior art”. I strongly suggest you get an EPUB version of Deep Strength’s book and read it, specifically to compare and contrast his thought with your own. That will only strengthen your thinking.

    I’d point these things out at your site, but you turned comments off on the relevant essay.

  37. Anonymous Reader says:

    Jack at Sigmaframe has some interesting observations that are on topic.

    https://sigmaframe.wordpress.com/2020/06/12/looking-at-the-essentials/

  38. A P P L I E D psychonautics says:

    As a happy spectator, what I saw is that Anonymous Reader needs to admit he misread ol’ Sparty Christian’s first comment and cease papering over how wrong he is with walls of text. Because that’s what it looks like from over here. Allow me to flex my diamond-studded humility over here by confessing that I’m possibly a huge dummy. See? What’s the harm in being mistaken after all? You tell ’em, Sparty!

    God bless us all ⛎

  39. Pingback: Why we are here | Christianity and masculinity

  40. anptak says:

    Phoenix – the answer that you are looking for is right there in scripture, 1 Corinthians 7:3- 5. God who is the author of our bodies and sex drives (male, female) has also laid out the instructions so clearly. Do you not think that God has figured this out, and has not provided us the instructions for our own good? Neither husband nor wife has authority over their own bodies, and must not deprive each other except for an agreed upon time. Notice – no qualifiers, no excuses, no caveats, no requirements of ‘desire.’

  41. Pingback: The Effeminate Man - Spartan Christianity - Weakness Personified

  42. Pingback: The Effeminate Man – Spartan Christianity

  43. Pingback: What I’m Reading, Listening to, And Concerned About | Mogadishu Matt

  44. info says:

    This is what happens when women settle for Men they are disgusted by.

  45. Jonadab-the-Rechabite says:

    I can count on one hand and still have 4 fingers and a thumb to spare the number of times I have heard “do not defraud” preached from the pulpit. Nature abhors a vacuum and when the church fails to exposite God’s sexual obligations In marriage, you can be sure worldly wisdom will prevail. The reticence of the church to promote a biblical sexual outlook is spiritual malpractice. The church is more vocal against sexuality than vocal for robust sexual marriages. The prudish pulpits have born the bitter fruits of widespread defrauding. Parachurch ministries like Focus on the Female and Feminist life today have perverted God’s design as much as Hugh Hefner, but with the camouflage of pietism. Sexless marriages are an epidemic in Christendom; disrespectful wives are the norm and the church’s answer is blame the men. “If you loved your wife like Christ loved the church then she would…”. News flash the church murdered Christ, killed His prophets and apostles and still to this day refuses to obey His law. The solution is for the pulpits to stop kowtowing to feminism and find their spine and begin to preach against the sins of women with as much zeal as they do the sins of men. Don’t tell husbands to wash feet of their wives if the recipient won’t first acknowledge him as “lord”. Jesus didn’t. Tell wives that if they refuse to be washed and watered in the Word by their husbands they have no share with their husband. (How’s that for typology). I could go on and on, but the point is the failure is primarily that the ground and pillar of truth has become a reflection of feminism and not the voice of scripture.

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