Women’s sexual desire is narcissistic

This is actually not my original opinion. Novaseeker had a post over at Sigma, and he linked to a sexologist’s interview in regard to “sexual styles” compatibility. I ended up listening to the whole thing. The one comment that she made that stood out to me the most from the interview is that women’s sexual desire is narcissistic. Upon further analysis I find it to be generally true.

This actually makes sense from an uncontrolled hypergamy perspective. Women want to marry up. This leads to several conclusions.

  1. They could generally give 0 craps about men who aren’t attractive and who don’t benefit them (narcissism) outside of the sexual hierarchy (e.g. they still care about family).
  2. Woman want attractive men to desire them, and will go out of their way to get that attention (narcissism). Sex sells. Instagram, facebook, and the recent surge to places like OnlyFans.
  3. When a woman is with an attractive man, the thing that turns her on the most is being the object of his desire (narcissism). The sexologist even made the comment about why 50 Shades of Gray was so popular being that women wanted to be the object of desire (e.g. of a rich, handsome, muscular, successful leader).
  4. Ironically, the thing that often turns women on the most is being the object of desire but having the (attractive) man have his way with her. Perhaps this is part of being so attractive that a man can’t help himself by ravish her (again, narcissism).
  5. However, the woman in 50SoG also has the power to control or change that man… but only her (narcissism).
  6. The reason why women with uncontrolled hypergamy are attracted to men with dark triad (including narcissistic traits) is because like attracts like. In addition, narcissistic men value themselves above any woman who is with them (e.g. stimulates the illusion of hypergamy in that she’s possibly marrying up).
  7. Women with BPD who are often touted as crazy and promiscuous but really good in bed have their hypergamy turned up on overdrive. They live in their own bubble of narcissism which means they often can’t see the consequences of their actions.

Christian values and virtues aim at combating narcissism. For example, #1 is combated by kindness especially to those who in no way benefit you, #2 is combated by modesty, #3 is combated by sex within marriage and headship-submission and love-respect Biblical marital roles and responsibilities, #4 is a husband asserts his headship by having his way with her but having enough self control that he doesn’t succumb to potential ONEitis or being a slave to her feelings, etc.

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16 Responses to Women’s sexual desire is narcissistic

  1. Novaseeker says:

    The stuff she says in the video has been actually “verified”, to some degree, by “science”. There are peer-reviewed “studies” about how women’s and men’s attraction and arousal differ.

    Men’s attraction and arousal is object-oriented: aroused by the object of the desire. This was found to be the case for men regardless of whether they were experiencing same sex attraction or were simply normal. This is the “grain of truth” in the idea that “men objectify women” — well, yes, because our sexual attraction to women is based on the object of our attraction. It is inherently objectifying in that sense.

    Women’s attraction and arousal is self-oriented. They are aroused at the thought that they are themselves arousing to a man they wish to be aroused by them. There are two “spins” one can place on that. The more “positive” spin is that women’s arousal is responsive/reactive — it responds or reacts to male arousal in such a way that a man displays arousal, a woman gets aroused by his arousal, and coitus ensues. The more “negative” spin is that women’s arousal is narcissistic — that is, it’s about her and how attractive she is, rather than her partner — his arousal is simply mirroring back to her her own attractiveness, and confirming it, which is the ultimate high for a female, and which therefore arouses her if the man is “worthy” in her eyes.

    That aspect of female arousal tends to be a black box to men because women never discuss it. I think for obvious reasons — it makes them look bad, even to themselves.

    But, it comes out in their incessant criticism of men’s sexuality as “objectifying” — because, from a woman’s point of view, arousal is a matter of one’s partner’s arousal for you, not whether you are aroused by your partner per se. From a woman’s point of view, the latter (being aroused by one’s partner regardless of whether they are aroused or not) is … unfamiliar, and uncomfortable and “feels wrong”. SO women rail on men’s sexuality as being inherently selfish and immoral in its essence, when in reality it is really just different from women’s sexuality, and women’s sexuality, which is at bottom quite narcissistic, is at least as problematic as men’s, if one is engaging in a useless moral analysis of the underlying wired urges.

    Of course, these differing sexualities make perfect sense. Male arousal is needed for coitus — it’s a necessary precondition without which no coitus can occur. So it makes sense for women’s arousal to be triggered by their male partner’s arousal. The vice versa is simply not true — coitus can very well occur without a woman’s arousal, and so men’s arousal is not triggered by women’s arousal as a necessary matter (even though most men prefer women to at least appear to be aroused … obviously).

    Interestingly, the same “studies” mentioned above indicated that there was some variance for same sex attraction between females, such that quite a few females reported that their attraction and arousal triggers towards each other were more objectifying in nature and less “narcissistic”. I recall that a couple of the bisexually active women respondents in the study even indicated that they recognized that their attraction and arousal worked markedly differently depending on whether the “other” was a man or a woman. That also makes sense, since the underlying reason (at least what I take to be the underlying reason) for the way things work as between men and women is absent in the female same sex context.

  2. cameron232 says:

    @novaseeker, I can believe what you say. E.g. women often want to be clean ir prettied up before sex that is they would worry that “I smell bad” or they seem to care about how sexy they look whereas a guy couldn’t care less about these things – we’re always ready.

  3. cameron232 says:

    @DS

    4. has a typo: “Ironically, the thing that often turns women one (sic) the most…”

    About 1:

    “1. They could generally give 0 craps about men who aren’t attractive and who don’t benefit them (narcissism).”

    I think you’re right this just needs qualification. You probably mean something like “men they see as in the socio-sexual hierarchy.” Women can and do care about their fathers, sons, brothers, and father-like figures (old men) but that’s not what you meant I think.

  4. Jack says:

    Jaiya, the sexologist in the interview, presents sexual styles as a fundamental personal characteristic that should be understood and navigated in order to have a vibrant sex life. This goes back to what NovaSeeker wrote in his post about the centrality of sex in western culture. It also emphasizes the fact that women want and need to be aroused, but they can’t do it independently from a man, specifically a man who knows how to navigate their “sexual style”. This is probably why women are drawn to men with sexual experience — not only because of preselection, but also because there’s a higher chance that he’ll indulge her narcissistic impulses. This is another hint to the narcissistic sexual nature of women.

    I’ll add that marriage tends to tamp down the narcissistic elements of women’s sexuality because it introduces heavier responsibilities which are not easily escaped, and I’ll guess that this is exactly why women (and men who want to bed wild narcissistic BPD type women) want to postpone marriage and have sex outside of marriage.

    NovaSeeker wrote,

    “Women’s attraction and arousal is self-oriented. They are aroused at the thought that they are themselves arousing to a man they wish to be aroused by them.”

    Women will orient their identity in relation to men, no matter what socio-sexual rank that man might be. If he is above her hypergamy threshold (viz. an alpha), she will self-orient around his desire in a positive sense (i.e. she will pursue validation). If he is below her hypergamy threshold (viz. a beta or lower), she will self-orient around his desire in a negative sense (i.e. she will call HR, file charges of “harassment”, etc.). In contrast, a woman who is emotionally mature and spiritually secure will find her identity in God, husband, and/or father, and perhaps not resort to a polarized reaction to any particular man. But women like this are exceedingly rare.

    “That [narcissistic] aspect of female arousal tends to be a black box to men because women never discuss it. I think for obvious reasons — it makes them look bad, even to themselves.
    But, it comes out in their incessant criticism of men’s sexuality as “objectifying”.

    I had an interesting thought on this. Men could flip the tables if they criticized women for “self-orienting” themselves around men, as I described above. That would be an impressive exercise in setting the Frame.

    “…women rail on men’s sexuality as being inherently selfish and immoral in its essence…”

    Seeing how this post exposes female sexual desire as being narcissistic, perhaps there’s a bit of psychological projection being expressed through women’s accusations of “misogynistic” objectification.

    “…the underlying reason… for the way things work as between men and women is absent in the female same sex context.”

    This would explain the “lesbian bed death” phenomenon. The man’s arousal is needed to get things started.
    Great post!

  5. @ cameron

    Thanks. Fixed those.

  6. Elspeth says:

    The beautiful truth is that women literally cannot be sexy without men to declare them sexy by our very thoughts and impulses. Eve wasn’t sexy until Adam popped wood at her debut. Eve liked being sexy–as all women do–and it was the dick that declared it so. Any woman who declares herself sexy is prematurely judging herself. It’s phony. It’s narcissism if she believes it.
    ~Cane Caldo

    This is why women’s sexual desire is self-centered (outside of a long term committed marriage, where -ideally- awareness of and concern for her husband’s desires become a part of the equation). The whole act is predicated on the ability to elicit the necessary reaction and stimuli from the right man. When that can’t be achieved, it says something very demoralizing to the woman about herself.

    I would argue that most women are wholly unaware of this psychological dynamic.

  7. Oscar says:

    Elspeth says:

    The whole act is predicated on the ability to elicit the necessary reaction and stimuli from the right man. When that can’t be achieved, it says something very demoralizing to the woman about herself.

    Question for the group: What does this say about married women who make themselves sexually repulsive by becoming obese?

  8. Elspeth says:

    It could be that she is not as interested anymore in her husband as “the right man”. As a wife carrying an extra 20 pounds on my own body, I refuse to agree that unless a wife stays wedding day thin, she’s gone off her husband.

    After having our twins, I was very heavy. My husband never seemed the least bit turned off. Not even a little, LOL. Of course, it bothered me greatly, so I worked like heck to get it off, and got it off, but it wasn’t because I was sexually demoralized.

    For a wife to allow herself to become obese is a combination of 1) not caring as much, and often 2) not recognizing and calibrating properly in the wake of age and children. It takes some attentiveness to your body to recognize that when you’re 35 or 40, you have to make some major adjustments compared to when you were 22 or even 28. It’s not automatic.

    And occasionally, there are those husbands who aren’t as bothered by it. Or if they are, they don’t let on. My husband, when there were seasons where I was clearly not attentive to it, would just say to me point blank, “Should you be eating that?” I knew I I was putting on weight, and calibrated. Most men won’t do that, so she doesn’t always realize until she has put on a lot of weight.

  9. cameron232 says:

    “Question for the group: What does this say about married women who make themselves sexually repulsive by becoming obese?”

    Well I assume that as long as the man doesn’t say anything and continues to have sex with her she is going to believe she’s eliciting the necessary stimuli and reaction so she’ll think things are fine. How many men tell their wives they’re too fat or refuse to have sex with them?

  10. Oscar says:

    @ Elspeth

    As a wife carrying an extra 20 pounds on my own body, I refuse to agree that unless a wife stays wedding day thin, she’s gone off her husband.

    “An extra 20 pounds” rarely bothers a man, especially on the mother of his children.

  11. @ Jack

    I had an interesting thought on this. Men could flip the tables if they criticized women for “self-orienting” themselves around men, as I described above. That would be an impressive exercise in setting the Frame.

    I mean most men who are good with women already know it’s a fitness test and not to respond that seriously or tease them instead.

    Seeing how this post exposes female sexual desire as being narcissistic, perhaps there’s a bit of psychological projection being expressed through women’s accusations of “misogynistic” objectification.

    Most women, and honestly most men, tend to project their own desires onto others. Takes some introspection (which is sorely lacking these days) to figure out that it’s not true.

  12. @ Nova

    Women’s attraction and arousal is self-oriented. They are aroused at the thought that they are themselves arousing to a man they wish to be aroused by them. There are two “spins” one can place on that. The more “positive” spin is that women’s arousal is responsive/reactive — it responds or reacts to male arousal in such a way that a man displays arousal, a woman gets aroused by his arousal, and coitus ensues. The more “negative” spin is that women’s arousal is narcissistic — that is, it’s about her and how attractive she is, rather than her partner — his arousal is simply mirroring back to her her own attractiveness, and confirming it, which is the ultimate high for a female, and which therefore arouses her if the man is “worthy” in her eyes.

    Given that women are almost all solipsistic, the latter is more prevalent.

    I think it’s useful to understand the positive spin, at least from a utility male perspective, but knowing the negative spin is helpful to combat that behavior in a wife (at least per Ephesians 5 in loving his wife for the purpose of sanctification).

  13. @ Oscar

    Question for the group: What does this say about married women who make themselves sexually repulsive by becoming obese?

    I think some of it is inertia. People generally gain weight over time and don’t notice too much if it’s gradual.

    If a wife views her man as attractive then it’s usually laziness.

    If a wife views her man as unattractive, then it’s typically laziness or wanting to repulse him so he doesn’t want to have sex with her.

  14. cameron232 says:

    Weight gain is as much more more gluttony as it is laziness. People vary in degree of self-control and we’re surrounded by delicious junk food – even if you don’t keep it in the house it’s pushed at you in the work place. Not making excuses for self btw – I’m not fat.

  15. Scott says:

    Perhaps this is part of being so attractive that a man can’t help himself by ravish her (again, narcissism).

    I’ve says it before, and it bears repeating.

    The honest ones come right out and admit this. I’ve heard some variation of this, from pretty much every one I’ve been with

    “I prefer it when you just take. I hate it when you ask”

    If you drill down and ask why, they say “I enjoy the thought of you being so turned on by me that you just can’t stop yourself.”

    It’s another one of these “things your older brother/dad/first girlfriend should have taught you” lessons.

  16. Pingback: Descriptors of Beauty and Attractiveness | Σ Frame

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