“Red pill” real world studies and interaction

Watched several of Alexander Grace Youtube videos. It appears he’s one of the few going out and doing so called “red pill” interviews and looking at various studies to help me see what female nature is like in real life.

A few of the studies he goes over are:

The big takeaway from this one is that the shorter you are the number of competitors you have to find a potential mate goes way up for men.

competitor numbers

Any man below 170cm (5 feet 5.7 inches) has 2-16x as many competitors, mainly because women generally prefer a man that is taller than her. Since the average female height is around 5’4″ish range that means the population significantly dips the shorter you get as a man.

The easiest male height appears to be 180-190cm which is 5’11” to 6’3″. This hits the often stated “women like men who are 6 feet” mantra while not being too tall where most women wouldn’t feel too short against that height.

The selected study is actually very interesting because the researches looked at “inaction regret” and “action regret” and see how it affected behaviors. Inaction regret would be like if you had the opportunity to do something and didn’t do it (e.g. have sex but chose not have sex) and action regret is the opposite (e.g. you had sex and then regretted it).

Basically, with action regret and casual sex they found some of the following conclusions for women, contrary to what the researches thought.

  • Action regret did not reduce casual sex for women
  • Action regret did not increase the probability that women would enter a long term relationship instead of having more casual sex and in fact increased the probability that they would have more casual sex
  • Women chose partners the same, even when regretting them

Basically, reconfirming old wisdom like “you can’t turn a hoe into a housewife” and the obvious virginity and divorce statistics.

Also reconfirming the general wisdom that women tend to be bad choosers of potential mates. Some women can be good choosers, but they generally have to be taught much like men have to be taught to be a man. Leaving women to their own devices generally trends to the casual sex and regret cycle.

This is probably the most telling picture, but there are more in the link above.

speeddate

Generally, men were pretty accurate on how much they valued attractiveness and fun, but were off on some of the others. I don’t find this surprising since most men aren’t attracted to sincerity, intelligence, or ambitiousness in women, but the biggest change is in the common interest which is relatively common. Among friend groups with similar interests like sports and other hobbies there’s usually men and women forming relationships.

Women are totally off and don’t really know what they want. Obviously, we know women won’t talk to any men they find unattractive, so it’s not surprising that they vastly underestimate attractiveness in wanting a second date. Interest and fun I think are second namely because it’s hard to show ambitiousness and intelligence except in real world scenarios and not artificial ones.

In any case, I thought those were some interesting vids to look through overall if you wanted to understand the nature of women better. The vast majority confirms most ‘RP’ concepts on hypergamy and some of the other ones listed in this post.


This post was written before he dropped a vid a day or two ago on his own relationship, so I’m adding this section in too.

h/t TomA’s summary on RPC discord:

Very interesting to watch Alexander immediately DEER (defend, excuse, explain, rationalize) the leadership role in his relationship and (1:44:20) then admit he only leads her as far as she agrees with his leadership.

He offers RP dating advice with a focus on empirical psychology and evopsycho theory. He tries to clean up RP material by being very empathetic to men and women, talks a lot about trauma (he clear had it and its a big lens of his onto the world), and is a Randian.

Check out the description of this video, he dishes it pretty straight. I like him 9 times out of 10.

Fairly good summary having watched about 10-15 of his vids and watched the above link as well.

Obviously, AG doesn’t have the Biblical perspective of Jesus choosing his disciples but they also had to be willing to and commit to follow. It’s not a “democratically elected process” as AG mentions in the video which means he only leads her insofar as she agrees with his leadership.

The sad part is that most of the Church gets thing wrong as well. Most Christian Church “the man leads the relationship” complementarians are like this as well. The husband is supposedly leading and doing his thing, until there is some disagreement to which many in the Church would often say “listen to your wife.” What this actually means is the wife is the authority and not the husband. Yeah, the husband may be the “final chooser” supposedly but often he is brow beaten if his wife gets unhappy or he SIMPs to her if she complains enough.

It’s excusable from AG but not from Christians. However, many/most Christians seem to really like this “democracy” for some reason.

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53 Responses to “Red pill” real world studies and interaction

  1. Pingback: » “Red pill” real world studies and interaction

  2. bee123456 says:

    The rot has been present for many years. I have recently had two big disagreements with my wife. Two pastors counseled us and both told me the same thing; peace and harmony in the marriage is the most important thing, therefore give in and do what she wants. Both these pastors have more than 40 years in ministry, both have done mission work in 3rd world countries. Most likely that both have been giving out bad marriage advice for over 40 years.

  3. @ bee

    Dang, sorry to hear that Bee.

    Probably need to find some actual Biblical counselors.

  4. feeriker says:

    Probably need to find some actual Biblical counselors.

    Not to sound cynical (who, MOI?), but good luck with that anywhere in Anglophone North America. I’ve yet to encounter ANY “Christian marriage counselor” ANYWHERE who uses Scripture as a guide.

  5. thedeti says:

    Women are totally off and don’t really know what they want.

    I disagree. Women do know what they want. Women are not “totally off”.

    Women know exactly what they want. It’s just that most of the time, they are afraid to say out loud what they want, even anonymously and even in a social sciences survey. They are afraid of the judgment and possible rejection they might receive if they say out loud what they want.

    They want to be shallow and superficial in their preferences for the types of men they want – but they don’t want to appear shallow or superficial and they don’t want to state that they are being shallow and superficial. They know they’re being shallow and superficial but they don’t want to admit that out loud.

    They need to keep up the facade of depth and profundity and sincerity for liking “nice men” while in fact choosing sexually attractive men.

    Women’s demonstrated preferences are very clear. It’s just that they don’t line up with their stated preferences at all.

    Lessons:

    Don’t listen to what women say. Watch what they do.

    Whenever you listen to a woman talk about what she wants in a man, always silently add “who is good looking and sexually attractive to me” at the end of it.

  6. Elspeth says:

    Wants and desires are not always the same things.

  7. thedeti says:

    E:

    For men’s purposes, “wants” and “desires” are the same things. Even if you’re saying women “want” nice guys who treat them right and “desire” good looking sexually attractive men who ravish them sexually, you’re still off base.

    Women SAY they want nice guys who treat them right because that’s socially acceptable and they know it’s what they’re supposed to say. But they don’t want those men and we all know they don’t, unless those “nice guys who treat them right” are also good looking, sexually attractive men. So – women don’t really want the “nice” and “good treatment” part. What they want is the good looking, sexually attractive part.

    If women really did want “nice” and “good treatment” they’d accept it from less attractive men and then treat those men well. We all know what happens when women settle on less attractive men.

    Women don’t want nice guys who treat them well. They do not want those men. At all.

  8. Elspeth says:

    Even if you’re saying women “want” nice guys who treat them right and “desire” good looking sexually attractive men who ravish them sexually, you’re still off base.

    You can say I’m off base all you want, but at the end of the day, all of your arguments boil down to an underlying belief in women as equals. So long as you keep ranting that women have to fix it, women have to dig deep and do what’s right, you belie any other arguments extolling patriarchy.

    I don’t disagree with you deti, but so long as women don’t need men to meet their basic needs (or at least are able to live in the delusion that they don’t), the vast majority are going to forgo submission to men who treat them nice and take their chances hoping, even if the odds are long, that they can secure the kind of man they desire. It’s just that simple. Even when they deign to marry the nice guy, they’re going to be difficult in various ways. Not all women, but certainly most.

    Outliers aside (and we do exist), most women are not strong enough on their own to make the best decisions sans external pressure. We are simply not. The Bible supports my contention. Weaker vessel. Easily deceived. Gullible. This doesn’t offend me, so I have no problem admiting it. Women cannot fix what ails this landscape because we are simply, by nature, not equipped for it.

    This is why I agree with Deep Strength that regardless of what women do OR what they say, most have no idea what they want. They do want men to treat them well, but they also want men who they find sexually appealing, because the surrounding culture that they have been steeped and stewed in has told them they should prize it over other things. I disagree that it is impossible for a woman to have both (with a lengthy list of stipulations), but that’s off topic.

    I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that if not for my father and husband, my life would likely be a train wreck. I was well on my way, and that’s without even having “dated around” like a lot of other women. I tend to be more grounded and sane and tethered to reality than most women I engage with, but I don’t lie to myself about what I am really like.

    This mess will sort itself, but it won’t happen until the day returns when women can explicitly see their need of men for their safety and survival. Period.

  9. thedeti says:

    1) I don’t believe women are “equals” to men.

    2) if women really can’t fix anything and can’t dig deep and do what’s right, then women really are inferior to men. Women really are the oldest children in the house and really do need to be chaperoned. Women really do need to be under the direct supervision of men at all times and should not be trusted with anything. No one should listen to any of you or anything you have to say about anything.

    If women can’t fix anything and can’t do what is right, then women need to be quiet, stop talking, stop doing, and stand by while the men take care of it. And women don’t get to complain about it or any say in how it’s handled. Women get to just accept what the men decide.

    3) Women do know what they want and what they desire. They demonstrate what they want and desire in their actions, all day every day.

    4) They do want men to treat them well, but they also want men who they find sexually appealing, because the surrounding culture that they have been steeped and stewed in has told them they should prize it over other things. I disagree that it is impossible for a woman to have both (with a lengthy list of stipulations)

    Yes, women want these things; and they demonstrate it in deed. No, women can’t have both unless they’re extreme outliers, all of whom seem to reside in the Manosphere Ladies’ Auxiliary.

    5) This mess will sort itself, but it won’t happen until the day returns when women can explicitly see their need of men for their safety and survival

    I thought you just got done saying women don’t know what they want or desire. If that’s the case; how can they possibly know what they need? Don’t they need us men to tell them that too?

    Do you honestly believe that women have absolutely no role at all to play in fixing this mess? Women don’t have to do anything, even if that “anything” is nothing more than simply shutting up and ceasing to act?

  10. thedeti says:

    I find it fascinating that a woman is right here saying that women literally don’t know their own minds or bodies and can’t plan even beyond 2 weeks from now. If women really are this incapable of doing what even a 13 year old boy can do, then no one should listen to women about anything at all about anything, ever. Nothing you say has any validity at all, E.

  11. thedeti says:

    E, are you really here saying that not only do you not know what you want, but also that you’re INCAPABLE of knowing what you want and INCAPABLE of expressing in words what you want?

    Really?

  12. thedeti says:

    I give women more credit than this. I believe women have agency. I hold responsible for what they do and say. I make them live with the consequences, good and bad. “As ye sow, so shall ye reap” applies to women too.

    God held Eve individually accountable for her sin. Eve sinned. God devised a consequence and imposed it on Eve – individually and without regard to anything Adam did or did not do.

    You don’t get to have it both ways – either you are individual rational actors with agency, or you aren’t. If you are, then you live with your consequences. If you aren’t, then you’re little more than overgrown children who shouldn’t be trusted with money, cars, others’ lives, the charge of younger children, or even to be left alone for more than a few hours.

  13. thedeti says:

    You shouldn’t be allowed to have your own bank accounts, own property, work, or vote. You shouldn’t be allowed to live with anyone other than your fathers or your husbands.

    If, of course, that is what you really believe.

  14. thedeti says:

    This is why I agree with Deep Strength that regardless of what women do OR what they say, most have no idea what they want. They do want men to treat them well, but they also want men who they find sexually appealing,

    Do you even read what you write? First you say women don’t know what they want; then in the very same breath go on to tell us what women want.

    “Women don’t know what they want.” “Women do know what they want and here’s what it is”

    Pick one or the other. You can’t have both.

  15. elspeth says:

    I’m simply saying that God has uniquely equipped men for some things, and women for others. Keeping the order afloat which makes civilization work (setting sexual boundaries ate a big part of this) are not a part of woman’s domain.

    What he has equipped us for, we do splendidly. If that means we are “inferior”, then so be it. That interpretation doesn’t offend me. I think it just means we’re different, and that’s okay.

    Not gonna argue about bank accounts and all that. It’s not relevant to the discussion of whether women can or should be expected to fix civilization. It’s absurd on its face to even suggest it.

    And make NO mistake: the fallout of the sexual revolution is at its root about the collapse or preservation of civilization.

  16. thedeti says:

    No, the interpretation you’re giving it means women are inferior to men and have to be under men’s direct supervision at all times.

    I’m not saying women have to fix civilization. I’ve never said that.

    What I have said is that if women really do want “nice kind” Good Men, then they have to start approaching these men, dating them, marrying them, having sex with them, and having their babies. And, if we are to accept what you’re saying, women need to stop talking, be quiet, fall in line, and start doing what those nice kind good men tell them to do.

    Women have a role to play in fixing the broken relations between the sexes. Women have a role to play in ending the war between the sexes. Women need to lay down their arms, lay down their rights, and start actually dating, marrying, and having sex with, these nice kind good men they say they want.

  17. Bardelys the Magnificent says:

    Standing on the shoulders of Deti here:

    There’s a young chap on YouTube named Casey Zander, who put out a video outlining the things women won’t tell you. Honestly, one of the best videos I’ve ever seen. The gist is this: women want to submit to a dominant frame, but since they have no idea how to create that for themselves, they can’t articulate what that looks like. They just know it when they see it, which is why they can say with a straight face they want one thing and go after another. They don’t know how the sausage is made, they just know if it tastes good (pun intended?) so if you ask them if they prefer certain ingredients or methods they’ll agree with you, then choose the one they want. They have no clue, so it’s up to men to figure out our masculine identity and invite a woman to join. If she rejects you, next.

    I think it’s a waste of time to argue if women have agency. They do, to a degree, but very few can use it properly. The time is coming for The Ultimatum: shut up and get in line behind us or get left to your own devices, because we’re no longer helping you. This has been happening on a low level with MGTOW, but it’s coming to the mainstream soon. Of course there needs to be some training in frame control to keep us from simping, but that’s where we’re at. Men are fed up. We were nice, but now it’s getting time to not be nice. Women are NOT going to like the terms. You had your time in the sun, and you squandered it. So be it.

    Video in question:

  18. Bardelys the Magnificent says:

    Elspeth, if you want to help, go back to your sisterhood and tell them how I ended the last comment. That men are FED UP with them, and a reckoning is coming if they don’t get their ish together. Pronto. There’s still a short window where men are willing to make a fair bargain with them, but the hour is late. When that hour passes, and it will pass silently, there will be no more bargains. Not even hard ones. It will be “get in line, woman, or FOAD”. If they’re Christian, remind them of the people who laughed at Noah while he was building his ark. Be sure nice as you want to be about it, because the day of reckoning will not be. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

  19. thedeti says:

    Bardelys

    No, what they need to do is start taking affirmative steps to find these “nice kind good men” they claim to want, bang them over the head with IOIs, and start making it crystal clear they want those men. They need to demonstrate to those nice kind good men they claim to want that they are very interested in those men. They need to show that interest clearly in both word and deed. They need to give those nice kind good men they claim to want so green a green light that even a 5 year old could understand what they’re getting at.

    And then, when they get asked out, they need to say yes. They need to date these nice kind good men they claim to want. They need to marry them. They need to have all the sex these men want. They need to never, ever say “no” to these nice kind good men they claim to want. They must never, ever reject these nice kind good men they claim to want. They must never refuse them or give them any static or disagreement whatsoever. They must do anything and everything these nice kind good men they claim to want tell them to do.

    They need to find these men, make their IOIs clear, date them, marry them, have sex with them, say “yes” whenever asked, and be compliant, cooperative, submissive, fit, and feminine, and do all of it with smiles on their faces and with neverending cheerful optimistic attitudes. Nothing less will do now.

  20. Bardelys the Magnificent says:

    Deti,

    Not saying you’re wrong. I am saying that there’s currently no incentive for them to do so. And that won’t happen until The Ultimatum is given. We gave away the power we used to have. It’s not going to be given back. It must be taken. As it stands, women still have a window to do as you say and start wifing up good men. But it’s not gonna happen.

  21. thedeti says:

    Bard

    OK, well, I guess we can’t do it the easy way.

    Hard way it is, then

  22. Bardelys the Magnificent says:

    Always has been that way. Not throwing stones, I’m just as guilty as the rest of us. I once begged, pleaded and cajoled to get a woman in line. Doesn’t work. Only one solution does. So be it.

  23. Elspeth says:

    @ Bardelys:

    I talk to “the sisterhood” young and old about this all the time. However, as a student (and teacher) or history, not to mention Scripture, and someone with an understanding of human nature, I know that what you say is true. The only way out of this is the hard way. Decadent cultures only ever revert to reality through the trials of fire. That old saying:

    Hard times produce strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, weak men create hard times.

    Is a true saying and I marvel that no one has created an equivalent for women. So I’ll give it a go (this is an Els original so give credit, LOL):

    Hard times create virtuous women, virtuous women birth strong families, strong families launch good men, good men create good times, good times create weak men, weak men enable wayward women, and together they create hard times.

    As always, appreciate the dialog (trialog?)!

  24. @ deti

    Women are totally off and don’t really know what they want.

    I disagree. Women do know what they want. Women are not “totally off”.

    To be fair, it’s the study’s conclusion and it’s right in a way… with the caveat that it’s always about attraction first mainly.

    Women want X, Y, and Z in a man they *already* find attractive.

  25. Bardelys the Magnificent says:

    E,

    I marvel that no one has created an equivalent for women

    Women are not expected to build, so by default they are not included in that statement. Women follow in the societies men build. Men have biographies, women have grandchildren. There is no equivalent saying for women that would match the analogy, because the expectations are different. I appreciate the effort, though.

    Step one is to Make Women Obedient Again. Until that happens, no other progress can be made.

  26. elspeth says:

    You and I are on the same page, Bard.

  27. thedeti says:

    Women are not going to do that until they choose to or are forced to.

    No one is ever going to force them because that’s illegal now.

    All I am saying is that women need to pick these Nice Kind Good Men that they claim to want.

    If, in fact, they really do want those men. (They don’t, so I wish E would stop saying they do.)

  28. thedeti says:

    And I have never ONCE said that it’s women’s job to “fix civilization”. What I have said, and what I stand by, is that women need to either (1) date, marry, have sex with, and have babies with, these Nice Kind Good Men they claim to want; or (2) shut up about their “plight” that Thugalicious Carjackerson knocked her up and took off.

  29. thedeti says:

    At the end of the day, women have to choose to submit. Women have to choose what man or men they ‘ll “deal with” (their words). Women have to choose.

    There is nowhere in the word it tells husbands to force their wives to submit. There is nowhere in the word it tells men to force women to choose Nice Kind Good Men (that these women swear up and down that they want). There is nowhere in the word it tells any man to force any woman to submit to him.

    Women’s choices are submit, or go it alone. Submit and cooperate, or resist and do it yourself. Submit and compromise, or go it alone and do it all yourself.

    Women are showing what they want. They want to go it alone and do it themselves. We cannot force them to do anything. All we can do is let them go it alone and do it themselves- on their own dimes and their own time.

    It means a society will have to do the unthinkable: Let women starve en masse. Let women live and die homeless, in poverty, starvation, exposure, illness, infection, disease, and crime. Let women resort to dumpster diving and couch surfing and prostitution to support themselves.

    In other words – they’ll have to suffer what men suffer when men fall on hard times. Except for the prostitution part, that’s what men have to live with. If that’s what has to happen, so be it.

  30. Bardelys the Magnificent says:

    We all seem to agree on the final outcome, but we disagree on how it will happen. Deti thinks that women are going to have to swallow their pride and voluntarily submit to sub-attractive men. My position is that women have had full freedom the last 80 years to do so and they quite clearly prefer not to, and will not until they are forced. Some of the smarter ones will heed Deti’s advice, but the majority will have to be beaten (literally, if not figuratively) into submission, or be left to die alone in the fields. The wreckage is going to break a lot of souls. I am not happy about it, as I assume none of you are, either.

    I don’t worry so much about the laws. The US is headed for a breakup anyway; laws can and will be rewritten. And if we start throwing our nuts on the table like we’re supposed to, law changes will be part of the deal anyway. We let this get out of hand but, with God’s grace, we can fix it.

  31. Sharkly says:

    Clearly even Manosphere men are not ready yet to institute a workable patriarchy. They seemingly don’t even know how one functions.

    Firstly, the facts:
    Ideas should be judged on their own merit, not judged solely by who last said them.
    Women are inferior.
    Women are natural defilers.
    All people need appropriate rules/boundaries enforced by appropriate discipline.
    Women are not inclined to submit consistently, not even to a flawless man in a sinless paradise.
    Expecting women to obey without any discipline, is as foolish as expecting children to.

    Although women have some degree of “agency” and corresponding responsibility, how many generations will we turn over to the Deceiver of the defilers, frittering time away while waiting for natural defilers to instead act as men, as images of God, waiting for women to institute righteousness according to their dominion? LOL

    Even the heathen can figure this out. TFM did. He said men just have to take all their patriarchal rights back away from women. All of them. Patriarchy is a nonstarter without patriarchs being able to discipline all those underneath them. The laws have to change. Men have to be able to discipline their wives and daughters and other unruly women to rule over them well. Women were made weaker than men to naturally facilitate this. It is the outworking of great depravity and departure from God, when women and children rule over men. Beg your new masters to relinquish their power over you and to return to serving you, you fools.(myself included)

    “There is nowhere in the word it tells husbands to force their wives to submit.”
    White-Knight much? There is nowhere in the Word where it tells you to breathe, or to pee, either. The word clearly tells husbands to rule over their wives, as it is fitting. When discipline is fitting, then it would be just as unloving to spare your wife from discipline as to spare a son from the rod and spoil him. Don’t be obtuse. Christ is returning to rule with a rod of iron. Women will not be above God’s discipline. As God’s images and likenesses today we are to institute justice and bring many to righteousness, and to rule by firm discipline. The discipline of women must be reenabled. As TFM already explained, as long as women are 51% of voters, that isn’t ever likely to happen via a secret ballot box. I can’t openly discuss all that needs to happen to restore holy patriarchy on WordPress, but half-measures (while steps in the right direction) won’t render a workable patriarchy, nor a holy one.

  32. Sharkly says:

    “All I am saying is that women need to pick these Nice Kind Good Men that they claim to want.”
    You’re still leaving foolish women in charge of marriages. Their fathers should choose good men for them and raise their daughters to save themselves for their husbands and to stay faithful to them. No sane father would choose Harley McBadboy for his daughter, nor some fornicating drug-dealing thug. Women chose those types by themselves, because they lack good objective reasoning when it comes to overruling their fertility-goddess vagina tingles. And apparently you might to, if you expect women to rule over themselves as well as a father would. Forget what women want, quit hearkening to their fickle whims. They won’t be happy with whomever they choose for very long, if they haven’t been taught to endure discipline. Discipline them well and give them what is fitting for them.

  33. Oscar says:

    @ Elspeth

    I hope I’ve built enough rapport with you over the years for you to know how much I respect you, and your example to other women. That being said, I have to disagree with you here.

    Society in general is in a state similar to a bad marriage; both sides did wrong and failed to do right, and both sides seemingly want the other to “go first”.

    Except that it only seems that way.

    Men have been going first, and they’re tired of women not going at all. Men are tired of leading, and women not only not following, but actively undermining them.

    All people, regardless of sex, respond predictably to incentives. For decades, women have been rewarding bad men, and punishing good men. Individual fathers can teach their daughters to behave better, but other than that, men can’t do anything to change which men women punish or reward, with or without patriarchy.

    Men are supposed create order and build civilizations. Women are supposed to provide the incentive to create order and build civilizations.

    This isn’t a case of women leading men. Despite the perverse incentives from women, men have continued to create order and build civilizations. That’s why we still have indoor plumbing and electricity. Men are still doing their part, even though women aren’t doing theirs.

    But that isn’t going to last. Increasingly fewer men are doing their part, because increasingly more men are reacting rationally to the perverse incentives women are giving them.

    So, here’s what women need to do.

    1) Stop rewarding bad men.
    2) Start rewarding good men.
    3) Be worthy of the work and sacrifice required to create order and build civilizations.

    I know YOU are doing those things. I know you’ve taught your daughters to do those things. But overall, there are simply too few women providing men with positive incentives.

  34. Pingback: “Beautiful, High Character Women” | Christianity and masculinity

  35. Oscar says:

    Speaking of incentives, this chick rewarded a (presumably) bad man with sex and children, and is punishing a good man with an entire obstacle course to overcome for the “privilege” of supporting her, and her illegitimate children.

  36. feeriker says:

    It means a society will have to do the unthinkable: Let women starve en masse. Let women live and die homeless, in poverty, starvation, exposure, illness, infection, disease, and crime. Let women resort to dumpster diving and couch surfing and prostitution to support themselves.

    In other words – they’ll have to suffer what men suffer when men fall on hard times. Except for the prostitution part, that’s what men have to live with. If that’s what has to happen, so be it.

    It might even be worse than that. If desperate, starving women turn truly feral, men may actually have to kill them in self-defense. As things are now regressing, I see fewer and fewer men having a problem with that, especially among the younger generations.

  37. thedeti says:

    Oscar is right

    Except E didn’t do those things. E took a chance on a bad boy that he might – MIGHT – turn into a “good boy” and he did.

    Most women who do what E did end up as baby mamas. E’s situation is an extreme, extreme outlier and simply will not work for 9 out of 10 women.

    I am not saying this to slam E. I am just speaking the truth. I am just speaking the truth that everyone knows is the truth but that no one wants to hear. E is extremely, extremely lucky. Absolutely NO woman should view E as an example of how to start out married life.

    Most women who do what E did end up as baby mamas. E’s early life is NOT, repeat, NOT, an example of how to do this.

    Just like I would not recommend anyone do what I did. Most men who do what I did end up divorce raped, their lives ruined, their children’s lives ruined, living in their cars for a year, and then living in dilapidated one-bedroom apartments on the bad side of town. I was just lucky.

  38. thedeti says:

    I am going to say this again.

    I am TIRED of women saying that giving IOIs and actually dating these “nice kind good men” is “leading” anything. It is not leading anything. It is simply doing what you say you’re going to do. It is making you women put your money where your mouths are.

    If you really do want these “nice kind good men”, then you need to do things to get them. You need to show interest in them. You need to date them. You need to marry them. You need to have all the sex with these men that they want. You need to have their babies. You need to remain 100% faithful to them. You need to stay married to them no matter what.

    I don’t want to read any more excuses why you women can’t or won’t do this. I don’t want any more mealy mouthed excuses or explanations. If you women want these men, then you need to show interest, pick one, date him, marry him, have all the sex with him he wants, have his babies, and stay married to him until one of you is dead. I don’t care how hard it is. I don’t care about your feelings. I don’t care how you feel about it. I don’t care that you don’t like it. I don’t care that it’s uncomfortable. I don’t care that it doesn’t “feel right”.

    You need to do something. You need to do your part. You need to follow suit.

    We men are doing our part. It is long, long past time for you to do yours.

    So DO IT. NOW.

  39. thedeti says:

    I have never once said that women have to “fix civilization”.

    What I have said is that women need to fix themselves. All they need to do is whatever the men around them tell them to do.

    As Oscar said

    –stop rewarding bad men.
    –start rewarding good men.
    –be worthy of the work and sacrifice needed to create order and build civilization.

    Either fall in line, or as Kevin Samuels used to say, buy a dog and die alone.

  40. Oscar says:

    Men built civilization. Men can fix it. But men will only fix civilization for the same reason they built it in the first place – because there’s an incentive to do so.

    That was one of the brilliant features of Western civilization, which is to say Christendom. By eliminating polygamy, and giving almost every man his own wife and family, Christendom gave each man skin in the game, an incentive to build for his posterity. There was no need to drive such a man forward with a whip at his back, because he’s motivated to build for his wife, children, and grandchildren.

  41. Oscar says:

    I just remembered that old saying: civilizations are built by men who plant trees in whose shade they know they’ll never sit.

    If a man knows he’ll never sit under the trees’ shade, then why plant them? Because his children will sit in the trees’ shade, and his grandchildren will play in their branches.

    But, having children and grandchildren requires having a faithful wife to bear them, and help him raise them.

    But, what if the man has no faithful wife, and therefore no children or grandchildren? Why plant the trees then?

  42. Bardelys the Magnificent says:

    I don’t want to read any more excuses why you women can’t or won’t do this.

    Deti, I feel you man, but you gotta stop. They’re going to give excuses until the cows come home because women don’t really want to settle. And they’re not going to until they absolutely, positively have not even a 1 in 10 trillion chance of doing otherwise, and even then they will put it off until the last possible second. You don’t rationally talk a child into eating his broccoli, and you can’t talk a woman rationally into submitting to average men. You’re screaming into the void here, and it’s only going to make you hoarse. You have to give them no other outs. Right now, they have outs. Fix that, and you’ll get submission. But not one millisecond sooner.

  43. thedeti says:

    Bard

    Fair enough. Let them starve.

  44. Elspeth says:

    E took a chance on a bad boy that he might – MIGHT – turn into a “good boy” and he did.

    Yep. It was not wise. Although the quotes around “good boy” seem to imply that my husband that he may not be good. He is more than good; he is an excellent man. I take no credit for it, nor make any claims that I changed him into a “good boy”. My husband came from a very large family where most everyone was married and had been in long term marriages. It was actually quite different from anything I had ever witnessed before in most black families. He grew up with strong examples of marriage. He took what was good from what he saw growing up, conscientiously discarded what is bad, and has been a good husband. That would have been true no matter who he had married, I suspect. I just happen to be the beneficiary of his maturation.

    Absolutely NO woman should view E as an example of how to start out married life.

    I agree with this and have always been very up front about this fact, and have never suggested anyone follow my pre-marriage example.

  45. cameron232 says:

    Deti please see my comment at Sigma Frame. It isn’t just or so much how good looking a man is. It’s his personality dominance. In this sense it really is about alpha in the truest sense of the word.

    You and I are pussies compared to SAM (maybe you in a relative sense LoL – me in an absolute sense.) That is why our marriages are a struggle and they don’t want to submit (and sex is a form of submission – very much so) despite craving headship. You’re not the right one to give her headship – sorry.

    Lesson for young males: do not marry unless your personality is much more dominant than hers (or you’re happy with wife headship).

    Unfortunately there is not an abundance of submissive virgins. Christian MGTOW.

  46. cameron232 says:

    Also young men – understand that deti gets his way more often than Mrs. Deti now because of dread game. Mr. Deti has to perform this exhausting maintenence the rest of his life.

    And do not mistake them eagerly wanting to have sex early in the relationship with submissiveness. They just do that to get you when they can’t get who they want.

  47. thedeti says:

    Cam

    For women, sexual attraction is good looks, confidence, and dominance. It’s good looks plus “bad boy”.

    E doesn’t understand this as we do. She doesn’t understand that most men and women will never, ever have as good a marriage as she and SAM do. It is just impossible.

  48. thedeti says:

    Yes. I have to be a dominant jerk a-hole for the rest of my life. I have to call her out on every episode of disrespect or misbehavior. I can’t let anything slide, or we’ll be right back to where we were.

  49. cameron232 says:

    You’re still not a dominant male. If you weren’t previously you’re still not. She’s just cooperating out of fear you’ll burn it all to the ground. You don’t become dominant because you act like a jerk. At best you’re LARPing a personality dominant male.

  50. @ thedeti

    Yes. I have to be a dominant jerk a-hole for the rest of my life. I have to call her out on every episode of disrespect or misbehavior. I can’t let anything slide, or we’ll be right back to where we were.

    Ideally, if she’s a Christian she should be striving to do better over time. If she’s a lukewarm, then it’s going to be like that for a long time unless God changes her heart.

    I think you’re generally wrong on having to ‘act like a dominant leader’ (or jerk a-hole per your words) though. That’s simply one of the responsibilities of leadership that husbands are tasked with. To paraphrase Eph 5 as you know, ‘love your wife for the purpose of sanctification’

    Once you normalize it in your life it’s not a big deal, BUT if you were indoctrinated by the boomer, complementarian ideology for decades it may feel “wrong” for a long period of time. Just understand that it’s normal and normalize it would be my suggestion.

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