There still are no unicorns and recommendations on just getting into dating women

locustplease makes the observations about modern Christian women and dating:

After years of introspection I have decided I wanted/needed too much from a Christian woman if I found one. Since I see these relationships from the outside I developed a composite and it’s just not based on any one person. For instance the very strong godly dedicated ride or die Christian women I meet. They all made serious mistakes. And the ones who nailed everything from the start they never had to put their foot down on their own sin behavior and exercise moral agency.

I’ve had 2 church girls express interest lately but they both have feminist traits. Both are good looking have dedicated Christian mothers. The one I can say from what I’ve been around is the most godly single Christian woman I’ve encountered and really I can’t think of a second. Buuuut of course she’s a career gal. And since she didn’t get divorce raped she may b in a better financial position than me. Part of me says why bother telling this career gal with plenty of expendable income I’m looking for a stay at home wife. Another part says she’s probably barely making it like most career gals and desperate for an off and nobody ever offered her. I have too much pride to ask this girl out she’ll b way to hard to impress.

The other has some feminist calling cards but is a blank slate. It’s like I’m not willing to engage with a woman with anything I don’t like off the bat. But in the past I just dated them then did the filtering. Am I just afraid of telling them something they may not want to hear. Not very patriarchal of me. The one is younger barely out of highschool and not had to engage with her agency. The other one mid 20s has already and seems to have succeeded. Inexperienced — experienced. Somehow their both wrong.

Here’s the thing. This is not an uncommon sentiment from men today. I’ve seen it from the men I’ve discipled in the ‘sphere and also from those IRL. I do think there is some validity in being concerned about these things which I have noted in my various vetting and teachable posts. But I want to drive this home further.

  • First, don’t look for a unicorn. Everyone here has always preached they don’t exist.
  • If you think you’re going to find a woman who is already “perfect” you’re never going to find one. Even if there was one, she would already be scooped up by “Chad” when they’re in their late teens or early 20s.

100% of women you meet are going to have “feminist traits” because that’s the culture we live in. If you’re going to exclude women for that you might as well just stay single forever.

The true key is starting to lead a woman and see if she responds like a good follower. If she does, you can teach her what is right and disabuse her of cultural notions that are not Christian. That’s what Bible study and prayer with her is for before marriage. You can go over the marital passages and see what she thinks and correct her. Then see if she changes her behavior over time.

To use another analogy for the same concept: Jesus doesn’t give up on us because we are sinners, but He is looking for us to repent and follow Him. He’s not looking for someone perfect, but for someone who is imperfect who wants to make the sanctification journey with Him.

Obviously, this doesn’t mean we ignore yellow or red flags or attraction. You can screen generally using that. But if you meet some women that seem to have only a couple things off about them as long as they’re not egregious then as you lead and teach her she can change.

I’ve made the point before that we all teach others how to treat us. The same goes for training your wife. Both men and women, husbands and wives, should be changing over time toward Christ through the sanctification process. You can and should look for good potential in a wife (or husband for that matter), but these are not static things that don’t change over time. Just like we develop in the spiritual disciplines, train our bodies, or become more mature mentally and emotionally so too should we do the same things with ridding ourselves of worldly desires and passions.

If you do date women and they are fairly resistant to following you or want to continue in their ways then you can just part ways. It’s not a big deal. But if you are not even dating to see if women do this I think you are wasting a lot of valuable opportunities not just to learn how to lead better but also to see if a woman has the potential to become a good wife.

There’s a lot of women out there who look like a potentially perfect wife but then you find out she’s a rebellious nag, and there’s some women out there who may look like they have some cultural traits that are going to be negative but then they’re actually good followers once they have someone leading them. Appearances can be deceiving until you actually find out first hand how they respond to you leading her.

Advertisement
This entry was posted in Godly mindset & lifestyle and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

14 Responses to There still are no unicorns and recommendations on just getting into dating women

  1. Scott says:

    This is great.

    A good marriage today exists at the intersection of attraction to each other–character of both people–goals and expectations of both people–personality compatibility–whether or not both people change along a more or less compatible trajectory–God’s grace–being able to overlook flaws in the other person–external events that are out either of your control–whether or not you are “stubborn for each other” (that last phrase Mychael coined).

    And so on. It’s not that the girl you are looking for is a unicorn. Its the relationship itself.

  2. Scott says:

    Probably the part that is unknowable is how much weight do you give to each of those variables. It would be an interesting statistical problem. And the weight you give to each variable will also be situation/context specific. Not the least of which is the culture itself.

    For example, in todays culture the “attraction to each other” variable (Deti would say “visceral attraction”) is way more highly weighted than it was 100 years ago.

  3. Oscar says:

    I like the emphasis on teachability here. That’s something no one ever explained to me when I was young. I knew I wanted to exercise headship in my marriage, but I had no clue what that looked like, or how to do it. What I’ve told my older boys is basically what I’ve said here. If she’s not submissive to you before marriage (even though she’s not required to be), then she won’t submit to you in marriage. In fact, it’ll probably get worse.

    I still think that’s true, but I think emphasizing teachability is probably more productive.

    For example, Dave Ramsey often advises young people to go through Financial Peace University together before they get married. Suppose a young man already has his finances in order (you can’t lead where you won’t go), and he’s dating a woman who just graduated with a nursing degree and $35k in student debt (the average in the US).

    That much debt is a red flag no matter what, but….

    If she’s willing to go through FPU with him, and at the end of it she’s onboard with his financial vision, she’s probably a better prospect than the proverbial “debt-free virgin without tattoos” who isn’t.

  4. Ame says:

    Excellent post, DS.

    100% of women you meet are going to … be women.

    On career – some women have careers because they need to support themselves. If given the opportunity to be a SAHW/M, they may very well be willing to make that choice. But when single, and needing to support oneself, places of work require employees to set goals and move forward. If she doesn’t have the choice to be married, she may very well just be continuing to pursue the only option she has.

    It might also be good to know she has skills that could bring in income in the future given a wide variety of now-unknown circumstances.

  5. Rowena says:

    I just want to add – there is a difference between having a job and a career. For a woman – A job can be started, stopped, scaled down to part time work – turned into freelancing or a home based business or taken up to indulge in a passion. Jobs can be accomodated before the children are born and after children leave home or when children are at school. A career on the other hand is one where she gets her identity from the work; requires extensive hours away from home and family and takes the PRIME of her energy, focus and priority.

    The question is not does she have a job or not. What if she is a stay at home mom who watches soap operas and Oprah all day, eats potato chips and thinks frying chicken nuggets is dinner while letting laundry pile up and letting the house look like a cyclone hit it? And then expects husband – sole provider to come home and do the dishes!!!! That kind of woman is better off with a job!!!!

    The question that needs to be asked is – Does she value the home, husband and children – does she look at THEM as her MISSION or is home/ husband / children – a checkmark on her way to supposedly doing something MORE important (that is a red flag!!!)

    Bottom line – If she is too tired for sex; to cook; to care for husband / kids; to handle home – she needs to quit the job and she needs to listen to her husband if he says she is failing in her duties as wife / mother

  6. @ Scott

    A good marriage today exists at the intersection of

    1. attraction to each other–
    2. character of both people–
    3. goals and expectations of both people–
    4. personality compatibility–
    5. whether or not both people change along a more or less compatible trajectory–
    6. God’s grace–
    7. being able to overlook flaws in the other person–
    8. external events that are out either of your control–
    9. Whether or not you are “stubborn for each other” (that last phrase Mychael coined).

    And so on. It’s not that the girl you are looking for is a unicorn. Its the relationship itself.

    Good stuff. Wanna expand on that for others? Maybe I can run with it too.

    Probably the part that is unknowable is how much weight do you give to each of those variables. It would be an interesting statistical problem. And the weight you give to each variable will also be situation/context specific. Not the least of which is the culture itself.

    For example, in todays culture the “attraction to each other” variable (Deti would say “visceral attraction”) is way more highly weighted than it was 100 years ago.

    Yes, this seems to be a problem but probably not a major one. Even during say 1920s-1950s you still had most people “marrying for love” so to speak and the vast majority of those marriages are intact compared to everything post 1970s. So there are definitely other factors aside from attraction keeping marriages together.

  7. @ Oscar

    I like the emphasis on teachability here. That’s something no one ever explained to me when I was young. I knew I wanted to exercise headship in my marriage, but I had no clue what that looked like, or how to do it. What I’ve told my older boys is basically what I’ve said here. If she’s not submissive to you before marriage (even though she’s not required to be), then she won’t submit to you in marriage. In fact, it’ll probably get worse.

    I still think that’s true, but I think emphasizing teachability is probably more productive.

    Yup, all of the Biblical roles and responsibilities for women — submission, respect, family focus, fruit of the Spirit, compassion and so on — you want to see in your potential wife and SPECIFICALLY for you and for those less fortunate as well.

    Lots of women nowadays are great to their family and friends… but what about their perceived enemies or the poor?

    What happens when she gets angry and then now you are the “perceived enemy”?

    Most men don’t think of that.

  8. @ Ame

    On career – some women have careers because they need to support themselves. If given the opportunity to be a SAHW/M, they may very well be willing to make that choice. But when single, and needing to support oneself, places of work require employees to set goals and move forward. If she doesn’t have the choice to be married, she may very well just be continuing to pursue the only option she has.

    Yes, it’s a good idea to see if women are willing to give their career. Some will and some won’t, but you don’t know if you don’t ask.

    Obviously, don’t just trust the answer but look at actions too.

  9. @ Rowena

    Good insight.

    Definitely a good idea to ask about job versus career (can be done on a date). But then always look at her actions rather than her words. Do they point to careerism or are they just a means to an end. What is her mission? How does she treat others in comparison to her career? Lots of stuff to think about.

  10. locustsplease says:

    Thx.

  11. thedeti says:

    Good post. Thanks for this.

  12. Pingback: On the Concept of Agency | Σ Frame

  13. Pingback: Trust, attraction, and the Biblical female marital roles of helper, submission, and respect | Christianity and masculinity

  14. Pingback: What we’ve learned about Female Agency | Σ Frame

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s