4) Out in the *real world*, there are very few men who are overly impressed by virginity. I can see how (after 5+ years of reading “no hymen, no diamond”) one could get that impression, but it’s skewed. That includes men in the church. Look around at the number of men who marry women they have slept with, or knocked up, or whatever, BEFORE the wedding. This includes sincere Christian men. I don’t subscribe to the “no true Christian” trope because all Christians have weaknesses.
5) Just thought I would throw that in. In a self-selecting barrage of commentary, and after a long period of time reading said commentary (especially if you’ve been dating from this pool as well), it’s easy to have a skewed perception of things. It’s one of the reasons I am so, so big on sticking our necks out there and developing connections with a wide variety of people. Good, decent, Christian people come from various walks of life.
6) I am not saying you are idolizing your virginity. I believe you understand full well that at 32, you are at a “disadvantage” compared to a 22 year old who may or may not be a virgin. It’s just the reality of things and you don’t strike me as someone out of touch with reality. Fortunately, it only takes one good fit to find someone with whom you can build a life. I believe you will find him, and FWIW, I have met quite a few women who have several babies from their 30’s. I think a lot of the difficulties are overstated because they include women -the majority- who have been on birth control, promiscuous, are unhealthy, etc. All things which are ubiquitous and have effects on fertility.
1) Yes, traditional types are having trouble getting married now, including traditional women. Is it because of fears of divorce? Likely, not. I know a man in Christ (not myself) who was acquainted with a small number of traditional women. Who did he marry? The single mom. Wait, forgot to mention: The California Beach Blonde single mom who is a 9. Yeah, that matters. People here, and in other parts of the manosphere, can opine about what “should be.” End of the day, how many of the ones who say “AWALT” would turn down the 9 who was interested? Would any of them babble, “No Hymen, no Diamond?” Likely not. This is our weakness, as men. We know for women that they make rules for beta, and break them for alpha. Most men, make rules for 5’s and 6’s (be traditional, no college, virgin, etc.) but when the 9 or 10 comes along and wants to settle down, who cares what her N is?
2) Yes, the young traditional men, as in, the ones actually following God and doing what His Word says (no pre-marriage sex) do seem to be having more trouble settling down. I know several men like this IRL, and I wonder to myself if the sex drive is there, or what’s up. I think their parents detested the post 1960’s dating system, but didn’t really set up anything to replace it. Further complicating matters is the need to be financially set upon marriage. That was easy for my parents’ and grandparents’ generations (Dad had mortgage-paying job in manufacturing at age 18, Grandpa, while never wealthy, didn’t even have a high school diploma, but had five kids and a young marriage). All of these factors increase the challenge for today’s young people, no doubt.
3) It is hard to make a consensus of what the manosphere truly believes. The reasons for this seem to be: the manosphere is a mix of true Christians, PUAs, and those who would use the Bible as a club to teach submission to husbands but don’t really believe it otherwise (good grief that last line sounds feminist, but it is true unfortunately).
Generally speaking, these observations are easy to understand.
- Age and attraction matters. Men will “compromise” on a lot of different things if a woman is young and attractive.
This includes things like virginity, single mom status, character flaws, wishy-washy faith, and so on. Compromising on such things are not a good thing. It almost always comes back to bite people in the long run.
- The only reason given in the NT to marry is attraction. 1 Corinthians 7:8 Now to the unmarried and widows I say this: It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Obviously, attraction is not the only thing, but it is a significant part of why all people — not just Christians — want to marry. If only Christians could just accept this, it would make things a lot easier. No kidding a husband and wife want to be “turned on” with each other.
- Virginity matters, but not as much as attraction and/or a strong Christian faith.
Whether this is right or wrong I’m not going to speculate. I’m just talking about what “is.”
All things being equal, a man would rather marry a virgin than someone who has slept around a lot. There are a few instances where men are deceived by worldly standards and want their wife to have experience, but I typically have not seen this among Christians.
I’ve also noticed that many of my friends including myself would [have] rather married a devoted Christian with N > 0 than a lukewarm Christian who is a virgin. This is especially true if said pre-marital sex happened before a woman was a Christian, and she has shown a pattern of good behavior and works since becoming a Christian without further slip ups.
On the other side of the coin, you have those who will marry those who will sleep around or single moms. This is to their own detriment that they did not consider virginity important in conjunction with the Christian faith and pursued attraction above all else.
This is something that adds value, but given our culture there are various reasons why someone may not be marrying a virgin.
- Incentives matter. Everything you see in the so-called “market” is driven by incentives. I listed quite a few of the negative and few positive incentives in my previous post make it happen.
What drives men and women toward marriage are a lot of different things such as biology (sex drive), masculinity/femininity, procreation, companionship, helpmeet, and so on. There are also a lot of things driving people away from marriage negatively like divorce, courts, child support, blowing up marriages, obesity, and so on.
It should be no surprise that marriage rates are declining. In fact, I think they would be declining even without no-fault divorce, screwed up courts, and so on. Over-exposure and the tyranny of choice drive that. People tend not to be as satisfied with their choices if they know there are ‘better options’ even if they can’t obtain such a better option.
- The more qualifications, the harder it is. It’s simple mathematics.
This should be fairly obvious, but it seems like it’s not. The “true” Christians will have more stringent qualifications on who they marry for good reason. They want someone who is dedicated to their faith in both growing in Jesus and good character. They also want someone who is attractive to them. Such Christians will have a much more difficult time finding someone who is strong in their faith AND simultaneously attractive to them.
Some compromise the wrong way (attraction > faith + character). Some compromise the right way (faith + character > attraction). And some get both… Usually the 8-10s will get both nowadays. The rest will not.
Overall, age and attractiveness are the primary factors that tend to drive male sexuality and hence also marriage. Other factors may include companionship/helpmeet, respect/love (for men and women), wanting to have a family, virginity, and other such things. Age obviously plays a role in attractiveness due to beauty but also in fertility. Worldly things like status and money can be a factor as well.
This is the reason why it is important for women to cultivate their beauty, femininity, and have a mind for marriage at a younger age. It’s a huge leg up in finding suitable candidates that they’re also attracted to. Virginity is more of an “add on bonus” when everything is said and done for most of the population, even serious Christians depending on the circumstance. All things being equal, it is preferable.
Older Christian women who want to marry need to cultivate their beauty and femininity as much as possible as well as a kind, household oriented, and servant hearted demeanor. Age and beauty are not on their side so they may need to compromise in other areas but not faith or character.
Conclusion: Women your physical beauty will get you in the door, and your personality and spirituality will make him want to keep you. While the latter is the most important, you cannot neglect the former if you want to get married.
Conclusion: Men your masculine personality and confidence will get you in the door, and your ability to lead her spiritually will make her want to keep you. While the latter is the most important, you cannot neglect the former if you want to get married.
To go back to to the analogy I used in my first ever post on this blog, attraction matters as it gets your foot in the door. If you can’t get a foot in the door, you likely aren’t going to get married. Women won’t be asked out. Men won’t be accepted for dates or relationships.