From the mailbag: marital rape rants, sexual attraction, and more

Sometimes I receive anonymous e-mails like this:

You wrote on the subject of marital rape….and you decided to twist the bibles words on the subject. I can only assume one would do this to make themselves feel better about the fact that they themselves are rapists. I was raped in my marriage for 5 and a half years. I’d like to know your point of view once something this horrible happens to someone you love. GOD is discussed with you. Shame on you! It’s people like you that give Christians a bad name. Fuck you cunts!

Ignoring the vitriolic language,

  • If I was being “raped” I wouldn’t stick around with that person for 5 and a half years.
  • Neither would I be going around looking for blogs talking about how there isn’t such a thing as “marital rape” to basically wallow in my own misery and PTSD.

The few actual victims of rape or sexual battery I know basically don’t want to talk about it and/or have moved on with their lives. They don’t wallow in their own victimhood and seek out others to try to convince them that they’re bad people. It’s only when you get those who were convinced after the fact that it was rape by feminists (e.g. regret sex or bad breakup/divorce followed by reframing of everything that happened in the relationship to something bad).

In any case, I encourage said reader to accept God’s salvation for their life. Then to look at God’s plan for marriage in 1 Corinthians 7 with different eyes. The wife’s body is the husband’s and the husband’s body is the wife. It’s about mutual giving to each other to meet their needs. There is no right to deny meeting their needs.

Moving on.

I just have a question regarding beauty and how it relates to the Bible for male sexual attraction. I will admit that I do struggle with this since most people I know state that inner beauty is the only true beauty. It makes me feel really guilty of superficiality. It is really confusing because, despite the church’s insistence that personality is all that matters, my experiences and biological reactions tell me otherwise (even my male friends seem to focus a lot on looks quite often). This all cannot just be an accident. I only considered dating people first because of physical attraction and arousal. Almost 95% of my crushes were based on looks to be honest. How do I reconcile this issue when people parrot verses such as Prov. 11:22; 31:30 and 1 Pet. 3:3-4 which, on the surface, seem to completely obliterate the idea of outer beauty (especially Prov. 31:30). What is your interpretation of these passages?

As for the objectivity of beauty, how do we make sense of other cultures who seem to define beauty differently? Is there a way in which objectivity can still exist despite diversity? the only thing I have come closest to arguing for objective beauty is by stating that God has intentionally set a standard of beauty in the same way that certain things in nature are just naturally beautiful like patterns and order in nature like flower petals following the Fibonacci sequence. There must be a particular order or form of the female body in order to be considered beautiful that isn’t centered on subjective reactions.

I ask you because I know that you are able to help me with my struggle. Hopefully you’re able to respond soon and may God bless you. 🙂

I find this pattern of thought to be very common among young men in the Church.

The Church and even fellow Christians, like the culture, try to demonize men for being attracted to a woman’s feminine beauty.

Obviously, I’ve written before on why sexual attraction is important to marriage.

It goes without saying to the young Christian men out there: you are not alone.

If you have certain preferences for physical beauty in a woman you shouldn’t feel ashamed of it no matter how many people — even Christians — try to shame you or make you change your mind. Things like grooming practices are your freedom in Christ to look for. We know that men are sexually attracted to certain traits in women: youthfulness, facial structure, waist to hip ratio, and symmetry are universally attractive. The past few posts were on that.

If other people want to deny reality that’s up to them. There are certainly enough people trying to live the “Eat, Pray, Love” divorce fantasy to their own demise.

Stay strong. Continue to build your foundation on Jesus. Understand that most people want to criticize you just because you are a man with preferences. Your preferences are your preferences. Don’t try to change yourself for other people’s approval.

I think this would be an interesting trend to hear your commentary on. The mainstream media has for years been in complete denial of any reactionary/socially conservative shifts in the opinions of millenials (and the upper bound of Generation Z.) Now, it seems they (NYT) are willing to accept that such a shift is in motion, albeit with some of their usual condescension. As a member of the 18-24 age group, I find this fascinating.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/31/opinion/sunday/do-millennial-men-want-stay-at-home-wives.html?_r=3

From what I’ve seen in general, no.

I think that those who want a stay at home wife are generally becoming more vocal about it, especially the women who realized that working a career isn’t all that. In fact, a career even sucks most of the time.

Those in the age group may be more vocal about it, but what actually happens is a couple of scenarios. The trends from what I’ve seen are DINKs — double income no kids, swearing off of marriage altogether, and/or cohabitation without marriage. Maybe marriage “in the future.”

on a separate note have you ever thought about doing a post on:

– Use of Yoga
– Use of New Age Treatment, Corporate Exercises in the Workplace.
– Use of Charms, Amulets, Zodiac, Tattoos Elements etc…

Consider this post on this topic my response.

In general, the first two “things” have some basis in actual science namely the interaction of the nervous system and its surroundings. The placebo effect is one part of this.

In particular, yoga, tai chi, and other movement based systems with incorporation of poses and deep breathing tend to relax and destress the body. There’s nothing “mystical” about the process as God has made the body to respond well to relaxation. He even created the “Sabbath” just for us for relaxation!

Overall, I think Paul’s statements in 1 Corinthians and Romans about food sacrificed to idols basically apply mostly. Other people can try to make things an “idol” and add all their “voodoo” to it, but at the end of the day God made the body and if we use movement, deep breathing, and other techniques to relax it, exercise, and stay healthy then why would we condemn such a thing?

However, for those who are weaker in the faith, I would not flaunt the believer’s freedom to do those things in front of them. Also, I would stay away from labels like “new age” as they can tend to leave a bad impression for you in the eyes of non-believers and believers.

In regard to “Use of Charms, Amulets, Zodiac, Tattoos Elements etc…”, there are no such things and that is generally considered witchcraft in the Bible. Stay away.

That’s all for this mail bag. Feel free to comment about these topics if you agree or disagree.

Posted in Godly mindset & lifestyle | Tagged | 3 Comments

Feminine beauty is highly controllable theory and analysis Part 2

A good amount of discussion was had in women don’t really understand male attraction. For the women that actually care about doing something about attracting a man, this post will educate you on that.

Also worth noting is Dalrock’s most recent post that shows old(er) women don’t have the same sexual attractiveness they did when they were in their 20s for quite obvious reasons.

Let’s get down to it.


I’ve linked to The Rules Revisited article on feminine beauty is highly controlled before. The premise of the article is good, but it doesn’t accurately quantify beauty that well.

Introduction

Donal and other sources have already made a general quantification of what represents male attractiveness in PSALM/LAMPS — power/personality, status, athleticism, looks, money. These traits when broken down into Scriptural terms tend to signify that a man will be a masculine and authoritative and a protector and provider. If you missed why attractiveness is important, you can refer back to my article about why attractiveness is an important part of marriage in the context of the Scripture.

On the other hand, men are almost 100% attracted to feminine beauty. Here is an attempted analysis (Image credit to therulesrevisted):

In general, I don’t think quantifying feminine beauty by a scale of “100%” is an accurate indicator.

The 4-5 areas of female beauty

Feminine beauty tends to be separated into 4 to maybe 5 distinct categories that all intermingle to form a coherent whole. Men can glance at a woman and determine her feminine beauty right away.

The main 4 attractive traits are a mishmash from the above picture:

  • Age — Men’s optimal preferences via OKCupid study suggest between 20 to 23 is the most physically attractive age to men.
  • Face — Structure of the face, eyes, teeth, skin, and so on.
  • Body — Legs, hip, butt, breasts, ratios, fitness level, weight, and so on.
  • Femininity — Hair, girlishness of clothes (dresses, skirts, etc.), girlishness of demeanor, smiling.

Age and physical beauty are attractive to men because they are cues for fertility and ability to have many and healthy children. See: God’s mandate in Genesis 1 to be fruitful and multiply. Femininity is both part of the dichotomy of masculinity-femininity between the sexes and likely a solid positive mothering cue.

Face and body are pretty straight forward, and different men have different opinions on 6 what they deem as ideal. However, the vast majority of beauty is relatively objective in facial and body shape, structure, and symmetry. Most men will rate a women within 1 point of where she may be at on a 1-10 scale. For example, an “8” might have 50% rate her an 8 whereas maybe 20% would rate her a “7” and another 20% would rate her a “9” and the last 10% may say 6 or 10.

Femininity is slightly convoluted. Hair length and clothing are straight forward feminine aspects. However, girlishness of demeanor is a bit harder to quantify. Sweetness and kindness are related to femininity, but they are not attractive in and of themselves. Part of “girly demeanor” is how a girl makes a man feel about himself. If she respects him and can make it known either subtly or overtly, it will tend to draw a man in. Seductiveness also plays a role, although how much of that should be used by Christian women is questionable. Additionally, there are some other almost intangible components of a girl demeanor like enthusiasm, bubbly-ness, and innocence that may also be attractive to men. In other words, it may signify that a woman is “untainted” or at least less tainted from the world. Women that are “jaded” by the world are often cynical and this is a huge turn off to men.

Note that some physical traits like virginity are not in themselves attractive. They are desirable. The same is true of being a Christian and growing in the faith.

The “5th” category seems to be “fetishes” for lack of a better word. I’m not talking solely about sexual fetishes, but men can get zoned in enough that they may rate certain hobbies or activities as attractive to them. We can look no further than gamers where a man may choose an relatively more ‘unattractive’ gamer girl over potential more conventionally attractive options. I’m not sure whether this “tunneling” is related to one-itis, but it may be. I generally would not include this in a general overall assessment, although it can play a role.

Composite numbers and the “floor” rating

When a man rates a woman it is a composite of all of these factors put together. Let’s look at an example of what a man may rate a woman in each of these categories:

  • Age — 30, but looks older for her age — 6
  • Face — Cute to pretty — 6-7
  • Body — Slim figure with voluptuous (.65) waist to hip ratio. Small breasts — 9
  • Femininity — Long hair, bubbly and enthusiastic. Has a streak of sarcasm, but smiles a lot — 8

Overall, her “composite” rating would probably be around the 7ish range

Individual ratings may depend heavily on individual preferences a man. For example, a man who likes large breasts may not rate a woman a “9” for body but maybe a 7 or 8 instead. Maybe for another man her face is his type so he rates her “8” for face instead. Maybe another man likes his woman looking young, so maybe she’s a 4-5 in age for him. Those are things that may affect individual components.

Some men prefer face and body to be the most important to them while femininity and age are not real big factors. Some men prefer face, body, and femininity and don’t care about age. Some men only care about age and face. Generally, most men will care about all 4 categories to some extent, but it really depends a lot on how heavily a man may weight different factors.

Instead of weighing in on absolute “percentages” for weighting the various criteria, I think it’s better to look at “floors” instead as they give a more meaningful assessment of whether a man may rate a woman attractive enough for him to ask out.

Example of floors

The example of my “floors” that I was looking for can be used as an illustration. Yes, I was looking for slightly to moderately above average in most categories. Yes, I knew it would be more difficult to find the more picky I was.

  • >=5 for age, which is about ~30 years of age or less. I wanted a large family, so the younger the wife the better. Around about 30 years old you notice that a woman is starting to lose her youth.
  • >=6 for face, which is self explanatory. Objective beauty plus personal preference.
  • >=7-8 for body, which means she regularly worked out and/or had good genetics.
  • >=7 for femininity, which means she has long hair, is above average for bubbly/enthusiastic/innocent, and isn’t too sarcastic and smiles often.

A woman who is 35 or even may meet my requirements (or any man’s requirements) for face, body, and femininity, but I may think she is too old. Likewise, a woman who may meet the criteria for age, face, and femininity may be up there, but unfortunately she may be overweight or obese which drops her out of the eligible attractive floor of a man.

The overweight/obesity scenario is probably the most common one currently. As I’ve noted in doom and gloom and the amount of attractive Christian virgins, it’s likely that up to 50% of women ages 18-29 are overweight or obese. This is probably the most depressing aspect since dropping weight for women tends to significantly increase her attractiveness for both body and face. The pointy elbow meme notwithstanding, every man has some “floor” to what he is looking for that may disqualify a particular woman from consideration.

Control-ability

What is “controllable” is obviously an important factor of a woman modifying her beauty to be more attractive.

  • Age — Not controllable. Age is obviously not controllable. This is why it pays for women to be open to approaches and marriage early. This definitely plays a role to some extent in that the most attractive age range is 20-23, but many men outside the internet don’t mind if a woman is at a higher age. Just know the search will get progressively harder as you get older.
  • Face — Somewhat controllable. Facial genetics are not controllable unfortunately, but most women can boost their beauty by anywhere from 1-3ish points over ‘normal’ if they focus on light makeup, solid grooming, and skincare. This can boost the women in the 4-6 range (which is most women) to the 5-8ish range with most in the 5-7 range most likely. This is huge. Remember, men are in general attracted to the average women, unlike most womens’ attraction to men.
  • Body — Mostly controllable. Body genetics do limit some areas like waist to hip ratios and breast size. If you google image ‘fat loss transformation women’, you can see a lot of fat women have the capacity to become at least a 7-8+ with solid diet and exercise. Plus, healthier, more enjoyable sex, and easier to get pregnant. There’s no reason for most women not to put in a lot of effort here.
  • Femininity — Fully controllable. God gave us free will, so we can change how we act. From what I’ve seen most women simply do not want to change how they act to increase their percentages. Most women could get themselves to a 7-8+ with some deconditioning from the world. After all, it’s not in the nature of women to be masculine but feminine.

Overall, an “average” woman can increase her beauty in the face, body and femininity categories to a 6-7ish range of face, 7-8+ range for body, and 7-8+ range for femininity.

Here’s the near ubiquitous poster example for weight loss (credit to crissfit.tumblr.com):

As you can see in the above photo, multiple categories improved substantially:

  • Age — obviously she got older, but no one could tell from the pictures. If you just isolated the last picture and the first picture, you’d probably guess that 124 lbs was younger than the 197 lbs.
  • Face — Maybe a 3 at best in the 197 lbs photo (mostly because of the fat on it) and likely in the 7 +/- 1 range for most men at 124 lbs. The fat goes away from the neck and cheeks, and her cheekbones and facial structure becomes much more feminine. Her skin clears up since obesity is very inflammatory and easily causes skin issues.
  • Body — 2-3 in the 197 lbs photo at best and jumps up to a 8 +/- 1 range for most men at 124 lbs. Her waist to hip ratio starts to come in around 140 lbs and is really emphasized at 124 lbs.
  • Femininity — Maybe 3 at best for flattering clothing on the top line. Obviously, can’t tell her personality so much, but the way she’s posing is not really feminine either. The clothing on the bottom line is much more feminine and flattering, and by the last photo she’s probably at least 7-8 range for most men. You can even tell she feels much better with her body in the last photo based on her posing.

Since the previous post, some of the interesting comments were that most women would rate her going from about a “5” to a “6” at the harshest to maybe a “4” to a “7.” However, what a “woman” would rate these other women doesn’t matter if her goal is to attract a man. What matters is what a man thinks.

If we refer back to the previous picture, why would most men rate her going from about a “3” to a “8” whereas most women would only rate her from going to about a 4-5 to a 6-7. The key to understanding this is curves:

“The real “sexually attractive” part of the 124 lbs picture is the bust to waist to hip ratio that is extremely alluring to men.”

There are very little natural curves when she is 132, but as she drops down to 124 lbs her natural curves become much more pronounced. Although you can argue that her clothing may be slightly immodest, she would still be rated in the 7-8 range with more modest but still feminine and body shape flattering clothing.

In any case, if you don’t believe me then here are studies. There is TRUTH to the fact that a .7 waist to hip ratio is sexually attractive to men. Pubmed studies include these, which tend to list a “most attractive” range from about .60-.75 waist to hip ratio in women.

Also,

We used eye-tracking techniques to measure the numbers of visual fixations, dwell times, and initial fixations made by men who viewed front-posed photographs of the same woman, computer-morphed so as to differ in her WHR (0.7 or 0.9) and breast size (small, medium, or large). Men also rated these images for attractiveness. Results showed that the initial visual fixation (occurring within 200 ms from the start of each 5 s test) involved either the breasts or the waist. Both these body areas received more first fixations than the face or the lower body (pubic area and legs). Men looked more often and for longer at the breasts, irrespective of the WHR of the images. However, men rated images with an hourglass shape and a slim waist (0.7 WHR) as most attractive, irrespective of breast size. These results provide quantitative data on eye movements that occur during male judgments of the attractiveness of female images, and indicate that assessments of the female hourglass figure probably occur very rapidly.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19688590

Men immediately know how attractive a woman is by her waist-to-hip ratio and her face, and then tend to spend the rest of the time looking at her boobs (at least from the front). If it was the back it would probably be the butt.

Overall, the point is that the last picture is flattering to her now alluring body shape with feminine and beautiful clothing that emphasizes the figure. At 132 lbs the woman likely has around a .9 waist to hip ratio, but in the 124 lbs picture she has around a .75  waist to hip ratio most likely.

Additional thoughts

There are a couple of things to note.

While this post is a breakdown of the factors that go into feminine beauty, it takes a man only a few hundredths of a second to a few seconds to look at a woman and give her a number in his head as noted by the study above.

A man does not look at a woman and hyper-analyze how attractive she is like this post. He can look at her at a glance or in a few seconds and know immediately what he thinks of her. However, this post is meant to break down the particular area(s) of how men make the snap judgment about a woman’s feminine beauty, which means they can make a snap judgment about whether he thinks she is worth asking out or not.

This is important because attraction is about getting your foot in the door, while desirable traits such as godliness, kindness, being good with children, being good with cooking and homemaking, and other traits such as these are what will help you keep a man. You need to be attractive enough for a man to ask you out, and you need to be desirable enough to keep a man. Generally, both men and women should strive for excellence in each of these categories.

I know quite a few Christian women that are good catches in terms of desirable traits, but they’re either overweight or obese. Hence, they may get asked out by a man here and there, but they don’t generate much interest in general.

To be frank, sex is a big part of marriage. To get a man to ask you out and want to marry you in general he must want to have sex with you. If you’re not attractive enough for him to want to have sex a lot, then he’s probably not going to ask you out on a date or going to want to have a relationship. The things that make him want to have sex with you are how you look — your physical beauty and femininity.

There’s nothing that can be said to make it more clear than that. Many people can certainly moan and groan about how it shouldn’t be that way, but that’s just whining about how God created man. Last time a checked, complaining was a sin. Accept it and learn to operate within God’s creation and perspective.

Conclusion

A woman can make herself stand out if she takes care of her face, body, and becomes more feminine. She can become somewhat to significantly above average in attractiveness, which will net her increasing prospects. Significant bonus points for starting earlier in age to prepare herself for marriage before her most attractive range of 20-23.

  • Age — Educate and prepare Christian girls from childhood to prioritize marriage. If she is prepared to be marriageable by 18 that is ideal, as she will stride into her prime years at 20-23 as an eligible woman for a man who wants to marry.
  • Face — Light but flattering make up, if necessary. Take care of the skin. Good grooming. Get good sleep to eliminate eye bags and stress. Don’t make it an obsession, but put some time into your appearance. Get the opinion of trustful men and women who will tell you if you’re looking busted or good. Don’t buy into any flattery.
  • Body — Heavier resistance training and eat healthy with mostly fruits and vegetables and adequate protein. Don’t be overweight or obese. If you need to lose weight, it’s all about a caloric deficit by eliminating excessive empty calories like refined sugars, snacks, and only eating ’til satisfaction and not full. Aim to gain leg and glute muscle and have a slim waist to get into the .6 to .75 waist to hip ratio.
  • Femininity — Wear flattering (to the waist to hip ratio) but modest clothing. Skirts or dresses that emphasize figure are good. Be feminine in behavior and demeanor. Have longer hair. Eliminate the sarcasm. Laugh at his jokes. Be respectful and follow a man’s lead when on dates. Enthusiastic but not clingly. Running a household is a priority to know. Know the Biblical qualities for how women are to act and do them.

While some men do marry women who are overweight or obese, this tends to be more of the exception and not the norm. Additionally, women who are overweight or obese also tend to marry men who are overweight or obese, so unless a woman wants her man like that I would suggest not being overweight or obese.

A random average Christian woman — 4-6 attractiveness — who works hard at the controllable factors of facial, bodily and feminine attractiveness can boost their face 1-2 attraction points, and elevate their body and femininity to the 7-8+ range with hard work and effort.

Generally, unless there are no Christian men prospects in an area, a woman who is a 6-7+ face, 7-8+ body and 7-8+ in femininity should have very little difficulty at least getting interest and being asked on dates and for relationships. In the communities I’ve seen, Christian women get asked out with less and mediocre faith.

The real question is… how many women would actually make the effort to put in work to be more attractive for their face, body, and more feminine. Not very many from what I’ve seen. Even less from Christian women.

Posted in Godly mindset & lifestyle | Tagged | 10 Comments

Women don’t really understand male attraction and implications

TPC’s response to feminine beauty is highly controllable theory and analysis is interesting. Although there is the typical disdain for anything that men have to say about women (which is amusing to say the least), this seems to indicate that women don’t actually understand male attraction at all.

In the wake of this epic 1996-level wild thread/discussion about marriage difficulty for young Christian men and women these days, the male blogger Deep Strength posted a long rambling thing about “feminine beauty” that made me realize a key part of where some men are talking past some women in these matters.

A scale is not a switch.  When some men use the classic 10 point scale for looks/beauty/attractiveness, they aren’t using it as a scale, but as a switch.  On/off.  Yes/No (to the question of whether they might, in the abstract, desire to know a woman in the Biblical sense).  That is why Deep Strength thinks the young woman in his post went from a “3” to an “8” when she didn’t budge much in the scale sense.  She wasn’t a 3 or an 8 to start with.  She was an average girl who now looks above average because she puts more effort into her dress and carriage and lost weight via exercise and diet.  On a ten point scale she went from 5 to 6.

But this blogger converted “went from girl I would never think of desiring to girl I might have desirous thoughts of right now” into ten point scale language. “From a 3 to an 8!”

This is, needless to say, confusing.  He could have simply used a switch and reduced confusion dramatically.

This is somewhat right and somewhat wrong from a switch point of view.

The concept of a switch is too basic. There is the common phenomena of “would do” or “would not do,” but in reality it’s more complicated than that which I explained in my post.

The concept of attraction floors is nothing new. Donal wrote on it a few year ago. Both Christian and secular men have standards for who they “would or would not do” but they also have a higher floor for “who they would marry.” This is why semi-attractive or attractive sluts are for pumping and dumping, but the attractive chaste lady is what they would look for to marry. The only difference is secular men actually pump and dump while maybe looking to marry and Christian men are either committed to be Monks or Patriarchs. The latter chooses to obey God.

On the other hand, TPC is wrong about this part which I find interesting enough to be main topic for this post:

She was an average girl who now looks above average because she puts more effort into her dress and carriage and lost weight via exercise and diet.  On a ten point scale she went from 5 to 6.

But this blogger converted “went from girl I would never think of desiring to girl I might have desirous thoughts of right now” into ten point scale language. “From a 3 to an 8!”

This is, needless to say, confusing.  He could have simply used a switch and reduced confusion dramatically.

Heartiste posted on it a while ago, and there is the general consensus among the majority of men that this woman went from about a “3” to about an “8.” Maybe plus or minus one point, depending on how men like red heads or whatever other factors. She most certainly did not go from a “5” to a “6” from a male perspective. It is vastly underestimating the importance of physical attractiveness.

Now, you could liken male attraction to female as a switch, but like I said before it does not quantify the complexity of the actual process. If we are only talking about “pure attraction” and were eliminating “desirability” factors, modesty notwithstanding, and eliminate morality from the equation, then for non-thirsty men approximately:

  • They would “not do” this woman at anywhere from about 197 lbs to 175 lbs.
  • They would “maybe do” said woman at 165 lbs to 155 lbs.
  • They would “do” said woman at 140 lbs.
  • They would “definitely do” said woman at 124 lbs.

To quantify this into actual numbers (which is why men use the 1-10 scale):

  • They would “not do” a woman at <= 3/10.
  • They would “maybe do” a woman at 4-5/10.
  • They would “do” said woman at 6/10.
  • They would “definitely do” at >=7/10.

As Donal notes, the attraction floor is the same thing men would use to quantify dating and/or marriage material as well from a purely attraction standpoint. There may be different qualifications for relationship status. Indeed, a man may only consider dating and/or relationship status in the “do” to “definitely do” range. A man may only consider marriage in the top part of the “do” and “definitely do” range. For example, to add on relationship status qualifiers:

  • They would “not do” a woman at <= 3/10. Would not date.
  • They would “maybe do” a woman at 4-5/10. Would not date.
  • They would “do” said woman at 6/10. Maybe date. Questionable marry.
  • They would “definitely do” at >=7/10. Would date, would marry.

Each man may have different qualifications for what he finds acceptable. Some would only marry at higher attractiveness levels. Some would marry with lower attractiveness levels.

A binary “yes” and “no” is too simplistic to understand the multiple various floors of quantification of female attractiveness.

Implications

The thing that I am most curious about is why TPC quantifies this woman at 197 lbs at a “5” and at 124 lbs as a “6.” It has been shown that the vast majority of males consider this woman from a purely attractiveness standpoint to be a “3” in the first picture and a “8” in the last picture.

Barring other qualifications like character, morality, and things like that, she moved from a “would not do” and “would not date” status in a man’s mind to a “definitely do” and “would date and would marry.”

As we have noted before, women generally are not motivated to improve their own attractiveness to men to up their potential chances for dating and marriage. Why is this?

  • Lesser motivation? Is it because women actually only see themselves and other women going from a “5” to a “6” in their own head, when in a man’s head they go from a “3” to a “8”? Vastly underestimating the importance of physical attractiveness?
  • Contempt for God’s creation? Whenever men discuss the attractiveness of women they always speak of it like they disdain how men were created by God to think about attraction to be pretty much solely physical beauty.
  • Passivity? Generally, women have been conditioned into being passive about their own roles and responsibilities in the dating and marriage arena?
  • Projection “just get it”? Women want men who “just get it” and want a man who “just gets her” or “loves her just the way she is”?

Anything I’m missing? Perhaps a combination of everything?

Posted in Godly mindset & lifestyle | Tagged | 39 Comments

Paranoia

BGR has a post up on not to teach daughters to be independent. The comments are pretty long, but I eventually was able to figure out some of the roots of dysfunction with this comment:

Even attempting to compare men and women is wayward. Comparison breeds covetousness, jealousy, and discontent. The modern feminist is the epitome of this.

No, men and women are not equal. The reason why God created certain positions in marriage, in the Church, and on earth is to teach us how to live in harmony with His design. When we deviate from those positions, we think it’s beneficial but in reality it’s sin and destructive in the long run.

For example, 1 Peter 3 teaches husbands to view wives with understanding as the weaker vessel and in the grace as a co-heir in Christ lest their prayers be hindered. The meaning is ultimately that men and women are different and need to be treated different, but that we should all remember that we are all created by God. Treatment needs to come from love not harshness.

Feminists, egalitarians, and complementarians are paranoid that men are going to abuse women because they have authority. They make up stories about how “Patriarchy” was used to abuse women in the OT and NT when the Law of Moses and Jesus show us that Authority is mean to Protect, Provide, and Love. They live in Fear not Love.

After you stop buying into that nonsense, the Truth is pretty clear to see.

The one theme that is common between feminists, egalitarians, and complementarians in their waywardness from God’s design is that they promote paranoia in women and men of men in authority. This is true whether in marriages, the Church, or elsewhere. They’re all paranoid of men in authority positions.

The only reason why “Patriarchy” is demonized is because of the longstanding effort of feminists, egalitarians, and complementarians to demolish the structure of marriage that God intended for men and women.

Posted in Godly mindset & lifestyle | Tagged | 4 Comments

Feminine beauty is highly controllable theory and analysis

I’ve linked to The Rules Revisited article on feminine beauty is highly controlled a couple of times. I think the premise of the article is good, but it doesn’t accurately quantify beauty all that well.

Intro

Donal and other sources have already made a general quantification of what represents male attractiveness in PSALM/LAMPS — power/personality, status, athleticism, looks, money. These traits when broken down into Scriptural terms tend to signify that a man will be a masculine and authoritative and a protector and provider.

If you missed why attractiveness is important, you can refer back to my article about why attractiveness is an important part of marriage in the context of the Scripture.

On the other hand, men are almost 100% attracted to feminine beauty, so I believe it is important to quantify what this means.

Here’s an image from the article (credit to therulesrevisted):

In general, I don’t think quantifying feminine beauty by a scale of “100%” is an accurate indicator.

The 4-5 areas of female beauty

From what I’ve seen and experienced discussing with men, feminine beauty tends to be separated into 4 to maybe 5 distinct categories that all intermingle to form a coherent whole that may be rated on a numerical system.

The main 4 attractive traits are a mishmash of some of the above:

  • Age — Straight forward. Men’s optimal preferences via OKCupid study suggest between 20 to 23 is the most physically attractive age to men.
  • Face — Structure of the face, eyes, teeth, skin, and so on.
  • Body — Legs, hip, butt, breasts, ratios, fitness level, weight, and so on.
  • Femininity — Hair, girlishness of clothes (dresses, skirts, etc.), girlishness of demeanor, smiling.

Age and physical beauty are attractive to men because they are cues for fertility and ability to have many and healthy children. See: God’s mandate in Genesis 1 to be fruitful and multiply. Femininity is both part of the dichotomy of masculinity-femininity between the sexes and likely a solid positive mothering cue.

Face and body are pretty straight forward, and different men have different opinions on 6 what they deem as optimal. However, the vast majority of such beauty is relatively objective. Most men will rate a women within 1 point of where she may be at on a 1-10 scale. For example, an “8” might have 50% rate her an 8 whereas maybe 20% would rate her a “7” and another 20% would rate her a “9” and the last 10% may say 6 or 10.

Femininity is slightly convoluted. Hair length and clothing are pretty straight forward feminine aspects. However, girlishness of demeanor is a bit harder to quantify. Sweetness and kindness are related to femininity, but they are not attractive in and of themselves. Part of this “girly demeanor” is how a girl makes a man feel about himself. If she respects him and can make it known either subtly or overtly, it will tend to draw a man in. Seductiveness also plays a role, although how much of that should be used by Christian women is questionable. Additionally, there are some other almost intangible components of a girl demeanor like enthusiasm, bubbly-ness, and innocence that may also be attractive to men. In other words, it may signify that a woman is “untainted” or at least less tainted from the world.

Note that some physical traits like virginity are not in themselves attractive. They are desirable. The same is true of being a Christian and growing in the faith.

The “5th” category seems to be “fetishes” for lack of a better word. I’m not talking solely about sexual fetishes, but men can get zoned in enough that they may rate certain hobbies or activities as attractive to them. We can look no further than gamers where a man may choose an relatively more ‘unattractive’ gamer girl over potential more conventionally attractive options. I’m not sure whether this “tunneling” is related to one-itis, but it may be.

I generally would not include this in a general overall assessment, although it can play a role.

Composite numbers and the “floor” rating

In general, when a man rates a woman it is a composite of all of these factors put together. What happens is that a many will be able to look at a girl and evaluate her with a number in each of the areas. Let’s look at an example of what a man may rate a woman in each of these categories:

  • Age — 30, but looks older for her age — 6
  • Face — Cute to pretty — 6-7
  • Body — Slim figure with voluptuous (.65) waist to hip ratio. Small breasts — 9
  • Femininity — Long hair, bubbly and enthusiastic. Has a streak of sarcasm, but smiles a lot — 8

Overall, her “composite” rating would probably be around the 7ish range

Individual ratings may depend heavily on individual preferences a man. For example, a man who likes large breasts may not be rating her a “9” for body but maybe a 7 or 8 instead. Maybe for another man her face is his type so he rates her “8” for face instead. Maybe another man likes his woman looking young, so maybe she’s a 4-5 in age for him. Maybe he likes a bit of sarcasm, so she’s a 10 in personality. Those are things that may affect individual components.

Things that may affect overall grading may be the ‘weighting’ that a man may put on a certain category. For example, a man may have a ‘floor’ on his attraction range where he may not even consider marrying a woman with less than a “5” for face. Even if she had high ratings for age, body, and femininity, it may be hard for him to get past “butterface” even if she was only average. Of course, that’s his prerogative, but it may eliminate some potential candidates.

Some men prefer face and body to be the most important to them while femininity and age are not real big factors. Some men prefer face, body, and femininity and don’t care about age. Some men only care about age and face. Generally, most men will care about all 4 categories to some extent, but it really depends a lot on how heavily a man may weight different factors.

Instead of weighing in on absolute “percentages” for weighting the various criteria, I think it’s better to look at “floors” instead as they give a more meaningful assessment of whether a man may rate a woman attractive enough for him to ask out.

Example of floors

Personally, my “floors” that I was looking for when I was searching for a woman were approximately around these figures. Yes, I was looking for slightly to moderately above average in most categories. Yes, I knew it would be more difficult to find the more picky I was.

  • >=5 for age, which is about ~30 years of age or less. I wanted a large family, so the younger the wife the better.
  • >=6 for face, which is self explanatory.
  • >=7-8 for body, which means she regularly worked out and/or had good genetics.
  • >=7 for femininity, which means she has long hair, is above average for bubbly/enthusiastic/innocent, and isn’t too sarcastic and smiles often.

A woman who is 35 or even may meet my requirements (or any man’s requirements) for face, body, and femininity, but he may think she is too old. Likewise, a woman who may be meet the criteria for age, face, and femininity may be up there, but unfortunately she may be overweight or obese which drops her out of the eligible attractive floor of a man.

The overweight/obesity scenario is probably the most common one currently. As I’ve noted in doom and gloom and the amount of attractive Christian virgins, it’s likely that up to 50% of women ages 18-29 are overweight or obese. This is probably the most depressing aspect since dropping weight for women tends to significantly increase her attractiveness for both body and face.

The pointy elbow meme is a pretty common one, but every man has some “floor” to what he is looking for that may disqualify a particular woman from consideration.

This leads us to the controllable nature of feminine beauty.

Control-ability

What is “controllable” is obviously an important factor of a woman modifying her beauty to be more attractive.

  • Age — Not controllable. Age is obviously not controllable. This is why it pays for women to be open to approaches and marriage early. Most men outside the ‘sphere tend to be not so focused on age so much unless they want a large family, so this may not play so much of a role.
  • Face — Somewhat controllable. Facial genetics are not controllable unfortunately, but most women can boost their beauty by anywhere from 1-3ish points over ‘normal’ if they focus on light makeup, solid grooming, and skincare. This can boost the women in the 4-6 range (which is most women) to the 5-9ish range with most in the 5-7 range most likely. This is huge. Remember, men are in general attracted to the average women, unlike most womens’ attraction to men.
  • Body — Mostly controllable. Body genetics do limit some areas like waist to hip ratios and breast size. If you google image ‘fat loss transformation women’, you can see a lot of fat women have the capacity to become at least a 7-8+ with solid diet and exercise. Plus, healthier, more enjoyable sex, and easier to get pregnant. There’s no reason for most women not to put in a lot of effort here.
  • Femininity — Fully controllable. God gave us free will, so we can change how we act. From what I’ve seen most women simply do not want to change how they act to increase their percentages. Most women could get themselves to a 7-8+ with some deconditioning from the world. After all, it’s not in the nature of women to be masculine but feminine.

Overall, an “average” woman can increase her beauty in the face, body and femininity categories to a 6-7ish range of face, 7-8+ range for body, and 7-8+ range for femininity.

Here’s the near ubiquitous poster example for weight loss (credit to crissfit.tumblr.com):

As you can see in the above photo, multiple categories improved substantially:

  • Age — obviously she got older, but no one could tell from the pictures. If you just isolated the last picture and the first picture, you’d probably guess that 124 lbs was younger than the 197 lbs.
  • Face — Maybe a 3 at best in the 197 lbs photo (mostly because of the fat on it) and likely in the 7 +/- 1 range for most men at 124 lbs. The fat goes away from the neck and cheeks, and her cheekbones and facial structure becomes much more feminine. Her skin clears up since obesity is very inflammatory and easily causes skin issues.
  • Body — 2-3 in the 197 lbs photo at best and jumps up to a 8 +/- 1 range for most men at 124 lbs. Her waist to hip ratio starts to come in around 140 lbs and is really emphasized at 124 lbs.
  • Femininity — Maybe 3 at best for flattering clothing on the top line. Obviously, can’t tell her personality so much, but the way she’s posing is not really feminine either. The clothing on the bottom line is much more feminine and flattering, and by the last photo she’s probably at least 7-8 range for most men. You can even tell she feels much better with her body in the last photo based on her posing.

Based on the location that I’m in (suburbs) and what I’ve talked to with other men, it is very difficult to believe that such a woman wouldn’t have at least some decent prospects, especially if they are willing to be friendly and talk to men. Working out and nutrition are such a huge factor for most women like above though.

Conclusions

A woman can make herself stand out if she takes care of her face, body, and becomes more feminine. She can become somewhat to significantly above average in attractiveness, which will net her increasing prospects. Significant bonus points for starting earlier in age to prepare herself for marriage before her most attractive range of 20-23.

  • Age — Christian women need to be educated and prepared from childhood to prioritize marriage if she wants it. If she is prepared to be marriageable by 18 that is ideal, as she will stride into her prime years at 20-23 as an eligible woman for a man who wants to marry.
  • Face — Wear light but flattering make up, if necessary. Take care of the skin. Good grooming. Get good sleep to eliminate eye bags and stress. Don’t make it an obsession, but put some time into your appearance. Get the opinion of trustful men and women who will tell you if you’re looking busted or good. Don’t buy into any flattery.
  • Body — Workout with high intensity exercises like sprinting, heavier resistance training, and eat healthy with mostly fruits and vegetables and adequate protein. Don’t be overweight or obese. If you need to lose weight, it’s all about a caloric deficit by eliminating excessive empty calories like refined sugars, snacks, and only eating ’til satisfaction and not full. While some men do marry women who are overweight or obese, this tends to be more of the exception and not the norm. Additionally, women who are overweight or obese also tend to marry men who are overweight or obese, so unless a woman wants her man like that I would suggest not being overweight or obese.
  • Femininity — Wear flattering (to the waist to hip ratio) but modest clothing. Be feminine in behavior and demeanor. Have longer hair. Eliminate the sarcasm. Laugh at his jokes. Be respectful and follow a man’s lead when on dates. Enthusiastic but not clingly. Running a household is a priority to know. Know the Biblical qualities for how women are to act and do them.

A random average Christian woman — 4-6 attractiveness — who works hard at the controllable factors of facial, bodily and feminine attractiveness can boost their face 1-2 attraction points, and elevate their body and femininity to the 7-8+ range with hard work and effort.

Generally, unless there are no Christian men prospects in an area, a woman who is a 6-7+ face, 7-8+ body and 7-8+ in femininity should have very little difficulty at least getting interest and being asked on dates and for relationships. In the communities I’ve seen, Christian women get asked out with less and mediocre faith.

The real question is… how many women would actually make the effort to put in work to be more attractive for their face, body, and more feminine. Not very many from what I’ve seen. Even less from Christian women.

Comments are appreciated. If I missed anything, comment on it.

Posted in Godly mindset & lifestyle | Tagged | 5 Comments

Doom and gloom and the amount of attractive Christian virgins Part 3

Based on the discussion in Donal’s thread Market Analysis and deti’s points, I went back over the statistics from the previous post. I found a few errors that I made, so I’m correcting them in this updated post. Let’s get into it.

———-

In the previous post on a woman’s sexual partners and divorce risk, we found out that approximately 5% of women were virgins when they were married in 2010. I noted that I wanted to go back and do a ‘better’ statistical analysis that is less confounded than previously in Doom and gloom and the amount of attractive Christian virgins.

  • There are 10,466,258 women aged 25-29 and 10,571,823 women aged 20-24 and 10,736,677 women aged 15-19 in the US in 2010. Let’s say the range from 18-29 is good. 18-19 make up ~40% of the 15-19 range so ~4,294,671 women.

2010 Census Data. Not much changes in 5 years given the chart as each population group is still roughly 10 million. http://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf

(1) Total women in 18-29 age range = 25,332,752

———-

  • Less than 20% of Americans regularly attend church — half of what the pollsters report. While Gallup polls and other statisticians have turned in the same percentage — about 40% of the population — of average weekend church attendees for the past 70 years, a different sort of research paints quite a disparate picture of how many Americans attend a local church on any given Sunday. […] His findings reveal that the actual rate of church attendance from head counts is less than half of the 40 percent the pollsters report. Numbers from actual counts of people in Orthodox Christian churches (Catholic, mainline and evangelical) show that in 2004, 17.7 percent of the population attended a Christian church on any given weekend.

http://www.churchleaders.com/pastors/pastor-articles/139575-7-startling-facts-an-up-close-look-at-church-attendance-in-america.html

  • We also know that 70% of young adults in the 18-22 range drop out of church.

http://www.lifeway.com/Article/LifeWay-Research-finds-reasons-18-to-22-year-olds-drop-out-of-church

These two factors as pointed out are heavily confounded with each other. As KPP pointed out in the previous comments, about half of the 2/3 that drop out eventually end up attending again albeit in lower frequency. For the sake of argument, I’m willing to be factor out the dropout rate of young adults altogether using the US population “regularly attenders” as the standard which is 17.7%. This will overestimate the amount of young women in the Church.

(1) Total women in 18-29 age range, (2) who regularly attend Church = 25,332,752 * .177 = 4,483,897

———-

  • 58.5 of women 20-39 years old are overweight or obese in 2011-2012 in the US.

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1832542

  • NIDDK (National institute for diabetes and digestive and kidney diseases) states that 33% of teens are overweight or obese.

https://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-statistics/Pages/overweight-obesity-statistics.aspx

This means that 67% of teens are not overweight or obese. The statistics above state that 41.5% of women 20-39 are not overweight or obese. Unfortunately, there’s no data for strictly say 18-29, so this is just an approximation. It’s probably slightly less because metabolic rates start to slow down into early 30s.

One could say that Christians have more self control than their counterparts. However, as I have noted in posts such as A lesson in false humility: Christians are allergic to healthy lifestyles, Christian women tend to find a way to rationalize that paying attention to physical appearance is an idol. This statistic is probably pretty accurate.

An estimate of the total number of 20-29 year olds that are not overweight or obese would build off the data. If 67% of teens are not overweight or obese then the 41.5% should be averaged between the 20-29 and 30-39. Therefore, if we say that obesity increases linearly with age, then 67% of teens are not overweight or obese, 50% of 20-29 are not overweight or obese and 33% of 30-39 are not overweight or obese. Averaging 50% and 33% yields our 41.5%.

Therefore, a solid estimate is that 50% of 18-29 age range are not overweight or obese. That’s still pretty dismal.

(1) Total women in 18-29 age range, (2) who attend Church regularly, (3) who aren’t overweight or obese = 4,483,897 * .5 = 2,241,949

———-

  • In highly religious groups, up to 20% wait until marriage successfully. Naturally, religious people seem more likely to wait until marriage to have sex. In a study of 9 Southern Baptist churches in Texas (it doesn’t get much more conservative than that), 20% of the church members aged 25 or younger were married without ever having premarital sex.
  • In the general population, the ratio of women-to-men who wait until marriage to have sex seems to be about 60/40 girls-to-guys. This statistic disproves the common misconception that only women wait until marriage to have sex. Statistically-speaking, plenty of guys wait too!

http://waitingtillmarriage.org/4-cool-statistics-about-abstinence-in-the-usa/

I did some research since the previous post, and found the actual study with data:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3156853/ (my red highlighting)

A greater percentage of men had no sex (30.1%) compared to women (24.4%). Same with the data for oral only, vaginal only, and both. The distinction is fairly low, but it seems to support the conclusion that women slightly more often have premarital sex than men.

Overall, the more committed one was to Church (e.g. very often) the more likely that one was a full virgin. Unfortunately, the study did not quantify the difference between “very often” and “often” but I imagine that “very often” is likely 1 or more times per week, whereas “often” is only once to a few times month. That’s the way I’ve seen it quantified in online dating surveys.

Indeed, there was also a huge disparity between those who married 16-20 and 21-24 and 25-36 with the rates at 15.8% (includes married by pre-marital pregnancy), 38.8% and 13.5% respectively for no sex before marriage. Overall, if you’re a Christian man aim for the 21-24 age group of Christian women attending Church often for your best shot.

Overall childhood church attendance and 2 parent families also played a role over no church attendance and divorced families. Another 2 factors to keep in mind.

19 total women were total virgins at marriage, and 22 total men were total virgins at marriage. This also lends credence to my aforementioned conclusion that men should aim for the 21-24 demographic of Christian women if they want a virgin at marriage as pretty much all of the virgins were clustered into eh 20-24 range. Kudos to the 32 woman and 36 man who waited.

It’s worth noting that Church 1a and 2 had a highly disproportionate number of virgins at marriage compared to the rest of the Churches surveyed. 1a and 1b are designated as being in the “same region” so there’s obviously a drastic difference between Church 1a and Church 1b even though they’re in the same area. FIND THE RIGHT CHURCH.

For the sake of the statistical analysis, I’m going to go with the 30.4% for “very often” Church attenders for the conclusion as the “attend Church regularly” is already a factor. Note that this may be higher in the 21-24 age women population and less in the 25-29 age population.

(1) Total women in 18-29 age range, (2) who attend Church regularly, (3) who aren’t overweight or obese, (4) who stay a virgin until marriage = 2,241,949 * .304 = 681,552

———-

Mark MacIntyre comments:

Shouldn’t you separate the single women in this age range from the partnered women before doing the rest of the sums? (I’m quite tired today, so the answer to this may be staring me in the face).

According to Pew Research, just 20% of Americans aged 18-29 are married. That would further reduce your eligibility number to 681,552 x 0.8 = 545,241 (rounded down, because who wants 0.6 of a woman?).

That is indeed the case. Therefore, adding a significant needed criteria this would be:

(1) Total women in 18-29 age range, (2) who attend Church regularly, (3) who aren’t overweight or obese, (4) who stay a virgin until marriage (5) who are single  = 681,552 * .8 = 545,241

———-

I factored in as many confounding variables as I could, and I was conservative at adding more variables to the equation because of confounding factor overlap. Other variables with confounding factors that I didn’t include in the statistics:

  • The National Marriage Project also found that “about 80 percent of young-adult men and women continued to rate marriage as an ‘important’ part of their life plans; almost half of them described it as ‘very important.’” Thirty percent of 25-year-old single women want to be married. Read more at http://national.deseretnews.com/article/1893/The-national-marriage-age-is-increasing-but-not-for-this-group-of-people.html . Only ~30% of women want to be married in the 18-30 age range on average approximately.
  • Those who attend church are not always “Christians.” Based on my experience and others I’d say that only 10-20% of Christians in churches are actually reading their Bible and striving to obey Scripture.
  • Worse measures of virginity in non-extremely conservative Church populations.
  • Denominational differences. Some of the stats clumps all religions together (hindu, muslum, etc.) not just Catholic and Protestant.

Thus, I believe the above statistics are a fairly accurate measurement compared to the previous estimate. If anything, it’s going to be a slight to moderate overestimate.

———-

The first post resulted in these stats:

In conclusion, there are approximately 125,000 (126,157) Christian women in the US aged 18-29 who regularly attend Church, aren’t overweight or obese, and are virgins at marriage. This is approximately 0.5% of the 18-29 total population (126,157 / 25,332,752). Pretty rare. In the US total population it is .039% (126,157 / 320,090,000).

Specifically, in any random Church the percentage that you’ll find a 18-29 year old attractive, Christian virgin is going to be .2 (virginity at marriage) * .415 (not overweight or obese) = 8.30%. In other words, about 1 in 12.

The second post resulted in these stats:

In conclusion, there are approximately 450,000 (446,596) Christian women in the US aged 18-29 who regularly attend Church, aren’t overweight or obese, and are virgins at marriage. This is approximately 1.76% of the 18-29 total population (446,596 / 25,332,752). In the US total population it is .014% (446,596 / 320,090,000).

Specifically, in any random Church the percentage that you’ll find a 18-29 old with the attributes of non-overweight or obese and virginity is going to be .24 (virginity at marriage) * .415 (not overweight or obese) = 9.96%. In other words, about 1 in 10.

The third post resulted in these numbers:

In conclusion, there are approximately 545,241 Christian women in the US aged 18-29 who regularly attend Church, aren’t overweight or obese, are virgins at marriage, and are currently single. This is approximately 2.15% of the 18-29 total women population (545,241 / 25,332,752). In the US total population it is .17% (545,241 / 320,090,000).

Specifically, any random 18-29 year old woman in Church with the attributes of non-overweight or obese and a virginity and single is going to be .304 (virginity at marriage) * .5 (not overweight or obese) * .8 (single) = 12%. In other words, about 1 in 8.

These numbers are better than previous estimates, based on more accurate data. However, I did drop some potential relevant factors, so if anything it may be a slight overestimate.

The average Church size is approximately 186 attenders. Your average Church is 60/40 women to men as we mentioned before. The women tend to be disproportionately older or families with children. Total 18-29 women in the US who regularly attend Church make up 16.1% of the women population (25,332,752/(156,964,212)). I won’t factor in drop out rates among young people, even though it may be up to 33%. Hence, we get:

  • ~18 women (186 * .6 * .161) in the 18-29 age group in your average congregation.
  • ~2.2 women (18 * .304 * .5 * .8) who are age 18-29, not overweight or obese, virgins, and single in your average congregation.

Unfortunately, there is room for gloom. But don’t lose hope. Advice in the conclusion.

Conclusions and advice

Criteria:

  1. Women who are 18-29,
  2. regularly attend Church,
  3. aren’t overweight or obese,
  4. are virgins at marriage

Statistics based on these criteria:

  • 2.15% of women in the 18-29 total population.
  • .17% of women in the total US population.
  • 12% of Church going women 18-29 are not overweight or obese and virgins.
  • 18 women in the 18-29 age group in your average 186 member congregation.
  • 2.2 women who are age 18-29, not overweight or obese, and virgins in your average 186 member congregation.
  • 11.7 women who are age 18-29, not overweight or obese, and virgins in your average 1,000 member congregation
  • 117 women who are age 18-29, not overweight or obese, and virgins in your average 10,000 member congregation

The last 5 statistics are probably slight overestimates. More conservative Churches may have slightly more. More liberal Churches will probably have less. Larger congregation have a tendency to be more liberal; hence, it is probably less than 160 women per 10,000 members.

That said there are good indicators for who the attractive Christian virgins are. They wear feminine clothing, have long hair, have an innocent look, have strong masculine fathers, value family and marriage, love children, don’t have tattoos, don’t like alcohol, and other such traits.

Of course, most of the men are probably going after the 12% in each Church, so you need to learn how to be a strong, confident masculine leader if your goal is one of those women.

My advice:

  1. Attend one main Church.
  2. Go to young adult events at other Churches and gatherings to increase your chances of meeting one of these few age 18-29 attractive, Christian virgins.
  3. If you’re in your mid to late 20s, aim for the 20-24 age group of devout Church going women as your odds rise up to potentially close to 40% in that range for virgins.
  4. Potentially attend a mega-Church, although the theology of many mega-Churches nowadays can be questionable. If you do, understand the importance of vetting character and attitudes.
  5. At 3 women per average congregation you might just be better meeting many 18-29 year old women at various hobbies, dances, and other social events because 2.69% of them will be Christian women who regularly attend Church, are not obese or overweight, and are virgins. If it’s a physical activity your chances are potentially better since that tends to eliminate the overweight and obese.
  6. Use your friends and families to network!
  7. If you’re still young, perhaps volunteer in university campus Christian group(s) as a leader or continue to be one if you recently graduated.
  8. Other advice here on my detailed timeline and how to guide on the process of finding a wife.

My Church is smaller than the average congregation. I did not find my girl in my current Church. She was 23 and a virgin when I found her, so that lends credence to the 20-24 range as well.

Posted in Godly mindset & lifestyle | Tagged | 20 Comments

Imbalanced market forces

Donal’s post starts to explore this and this is a follow up to my previous post on revisiting the Christian marriage market. To distill the issues down, it usually always comes down to two different things, which are typically categorized as “attractiveness” and “desirability.”

  1. Become more attractive if you’re not getting asked out and/or not able to maintain relationships (aside from developing better people and communication skills).
  2. Cultivate the roles and responsibilities of marriage from the Scripture as well as good character and work ethic.

Neither sex is being told to do either nowadays.

First, let’s address number 1 on attractiveness.

Women have it “easier” for what they need to do for physical beauty but their ceiling is fixed to a certain extent. Wear dresses, get long hair, take care of their bodies with good nutrition and exercise, take care of skin, and use some light flattering makeup if necessary. Facial genetics, body type, and so on can’t change that much which is why the ceiling is fixed. However, the fact that men love all different types of women plays into womens’ favor. Review: feminine beauty is highly controllable. I do think his percentages are off though.

Men tend to have a greater ceiling, but much of it is abstruse. PSALM/LAMPS summarize the various ‘traits’ shall we say which are power, status, athleticism, looks, money. However, most of these things take time to accumulate and/or are difficult to cultivate. How does one necessarily become more ‘powerful’ in personality or more manly? It’s difficult to explain and difficult to teach and inspire in men.

This is also why mens’ attractiveness tends to peak in their 30s while female attractiveness tends to peak in their late teens and early to mid 20s.

In general, women know what will make them more attractive. Their only problem is doing it. Christian women are often persuaded that they shouldn’t do it sadly and to their detriment. In general, men do not know what will make them more attractive. This is part of why the market is imbalanced in favor of women, not to mention the fact that most women tend to find most men unattractive (see: OKCupid statistics).

Second, let’s address number 2 on desirability.

The desirable traits for Christians looking for other Christians are a serious Christian growing in the faith, cultivating good works and the fruits of the Spirit, and building good character, and so on.

Generally speaking, both sexes are being set up to fail, each in different ways. I would not necessarily categorize one sex as having a harder time than the other.

Women will tend to have more trouble in terms of roles and responsibilities because society and even the Church is all about ‘feminist’ and ‘careerist’ views. Submission, respect, homemaking, and kindness are in short supply. When everyone is saying to do something, it’s going to be much more difficult to do the right thing straight out of the Scriptures.

On the flipside, men are still trashed and disrespected to a large extent in both the culture and Church. The blame for everything is placed on them, even when it is not their fault and there is rebellion in the home. The husbands and boyfriends are set up to fail because they believe they should be “nice” rather than masculine and authoritative and kind.

Overall, men tend to be more deceived in terms of what the Scriptures state especially from the Church pulpit, while women tend to be more deceived in terms of falling to worldly values. This is generally a wash.

Other thoughts

One of the things that doesn’t often get enough attention is reciprocality. The essential nature of this concept is the observation of ‘assortive mating’ where generally 10s match up with 10s, 9s match up with 9s, and so on.

Generally, those who consistently exercise and have good nutrition habits — “muscular” for male and “toned” for female — tend to have better prospects in terms of attracting a mate. Those who put some effort into their clothing choices, style, grooming, and so on tend to make better first impressions and have greater prospects. Certainly, there are some exceptions, but it’s a general trend.

Consensus

When you both the concerns of #1 on attractiveness and #2 on desirability together, you see the common trends of the unmasculine nice Christian man who other Christian women see as “just friends” and the typical chasing the attractive bad boys and/or missionary dating.

The Christian women who rightly won’t date bad boys or missionary date tend to feel they’re stuck in a funk of no prospects and/or no dates. The Christian nice guys believe they have decent prospects but can’t get an accepted date or maintain a relationship, or they believe they have no decent prospects given particular criteria.

Most ‘traditional families’ tend to instill desirability traits within their children, but fail to address attraction on the level of its overall importance for marriage. In general, this is why I see the common trend of most 8-10s being married because they simply are attractive to the opposite sex and have many ‘chances’ at marriage, even despite low desirability quotients from some of said spouses. On the other hand, the declining marriage rates among the <=4-7s show that drops in attractiveness make the desirability quotients more applicable to selection.

The most applicable notion for both Christian men and women is to try to boost up their attractiveness to the 7+ range if at all possible and approach marriage seriously from an earlier age, especially the young women. Desirability via growth in the faith and aim toward developing a solid set of abilities to fulfill roles and responsibilities in marriage is still paramount, but attraction should not be neglected as another serious component that plays a significant factor in increasing prospects.

Conclusions

At this juncture, I don’t think it is wise to say whether Christian “women” or “men” have it harder. Both have somewhat terrible to mediocre prospects, if they are blow average to slightly above average. Rather, those who are not more than average attractiveness have it more difficult than those who are conventionally or exceptionally attractive.

I suppose that brings us full circle back to the old SNL sexual harassment skit with Tom Brady:

Be handsome, be attractive, and don’t be unattractive.

Creative, I know. But it accurately describes the issue to a T.

The real question is why Christian men and women still refuse to do anything about improving their prospective odds and hope that someone comes to find them.

Okay, a man might not be overweight or skinny… but he would have better odds if he put on a lot more muscle and lost some fat. Yeah, a woman might not be overweight or she is slim… but she would probably have better odds if she looked closer to a fitness model or toned. That’s simply one area. Clothes, style, hair, grooming, and other things can also factor in as well.

Posted in Godly mindset & lifestyle | Tagged | 5 Comments

Revisiting the Christian marriage market

There’s been some additional good material over at Scott’s post still aside from my post on Make it happen.

Elspeth comments:

4) Out in the *real world*, there are very few men who are overly impressed by virginity. I can see how (after 5+ years of reading “no hymen, no diamond”) one could get that impression, but it’s skewed. That includes men in the church. Look around at the number of men who marry women they have slept with, or knocked up, or whatever, BEFORE the wedding. This includes sincere Christian men. I don’t subscribe to the “no true Christian” trope because all Christians have weaknesses.

5) Just thought I would throw that in. In a self-selecting barrage of commentary, and after a long period of time reading said commentary (especially if you’ve been dating from this pool as well), it’s easy to have a skewed perception of things. It’s one of the reasons I am so, so big on sticking our necks out there and developing connections with a wide variety of people. Good, decent, Christian people come from various walks of life.

6) I am not saying you are idolizing your virginity. I believe you understand full well that at 32, you are at a “disadvantage” compared to a 22 year old who may or may not be a virgin. It’s just the reality of things and you don’t strike me as someone out of touch with reality. Fortunately, it only takes one good fit to find someone with whom you can build a life. I believe you will find him, and FWIW, I have met quite a few women who have several babies from their 30’s. I think a lot of the difficulties are overstated because they include women -the majority- who have been on birth control, promiscuous, are unhealthy, etc. All things which are ubiquitous and have effects on fertility.

ys comments:

1) Yes, traditional types are having trouble getting married now, including traditional women. Is it because of fears of divorce? Likely, not. I know a man in Christ (not myself) who was acquainted with a small number of traditional women. Who did he marry? The single mom. Wait, forgot to mention: The California Beach Blonde single mom who is a 9. Yeah, that matters. People here, and in other parts of the manosphere, can opine about what “should be.” End of the day, how many of the ones who say “AWALT” would turn down the 9 who was interested? Would any of them babble, “No Hymen, no Diamond?” Likely not. This is our weakness, as men. We know for women that they make rules for beta, and break them for alpha. Most men, make rules for 5’s and 6’s (be traditional, no college, virgin, etc.) but when the 9 or 10 comes along and wants to settle down, who cares what her N is?

2) Yes, the young traditional men, as in, the ones actually following God and doing what His Word says (no pre-marriage sex) do seem to be having more trouble settling down. I know several men like this IRL, and I wonder to myself if the sex drive is there, or what’s up. I think their parents detested the post 1960’s dating system, but didn’t really set up anything to replace it. Further complicating matters is the need to be financially set upon marriage. That was easy for my parents’ and grandparents’ generations (Dad had mortgage-paying job in manufacturing at age 18, Grandpa, while never wealthy, didn’t even have a high school diploma, but had five kids and a young marriage). All of these factors increase the challenge for today’s young people, no doubt.

3) It is hard to make a consensus of what the manosphere truly believes. The reasons for this seem to be: the manosphere is a mix of true Christians, PUAs, and those who would use the Bible as a club to teach submission to husbands but don’t really believe it otherwise (good grief that last line sounds feminist, but it is true unfortunately).

Generally speaking, these observations are easy to understand.

  • Age and attraction matters. Men will “compromise” on a lot of different things if a woman is young and attractive.

This includes things like virginity, single mom status, character flaws, wishy-washy faith, and so on. Compromising on such things are not a good thing. It almost always comes back to bite people in the long run.

  • The only reason given in the NT to marry is attraction. 1 Corinthians 7:8 Now to the unmarried and widows I say this: It is good for them to remain unmarried, as I am. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, let them marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Obviously, attraction is not the only thing, but it is a significant part of why all people — not just Christians — want to marry. If only Christians could just accept this, it would make things a lot easier. No kidding a husband and wife want to be “turned on” with each other.

  • Virginity matters, but not as much as attraction and/or a strong Christian faith.

Whether this is right or wrong I’m not going to speculate. I’m just talking about what “is.”

All things being equal, a man would rather marry a virgin than someone who has slept around a lot. There are a few instances where men are deceived by worldly standards and want their wife to have experience, but I typically have not seen this among Christians.

I’ve also noticed that many of my friends including myself would [have] rather married a devoted Christian with N > 0 than a lukewarm Christian who is a virgin. This is especially true if said pre-marital sex happened before a woman was a Christian, and she has shown a pattern of good behavior and works since becoming a Christian without further slip ups.

On the other side of the coin, you have those who will marry those who will sleep around or single moms. This is to their own detriment that they did not consider virginity important in conjunction with the Christian faith and pursued attraction above all else.

This is something that adds value, but given our culture there are various reasons why someone may not be marrying a virgin.

  • Incentives matter. Everything you see in the so-called “market” is driven by incentives. I listed quite a few of the negative and few positive incentives in my previous post make it happen.

What drives men and women toward marriage are a lot of different things such as biology (sex drive), masculinity/femininity, procreation, companionship, helpmeet, and so on. There are also a lot of things driving people away from marriage negatively like divorce, courts, child support, blowing up marriages, obesity, and so on.

It should be no surprise that marriage rates are declining. In fact, I think they would be declining even without no-fault divorce, screwed up courts, and so on. Over-exposure and the tyranny of choice drive that. People tend not to be as satisfied with their choices if they know there are ‘better options’ even if they can’t obtain such a better option.

  • The more qualifications, the harder it is. It’s simple mathematics.

This should be fairly obvious, but it seems like it’s not. The “true” Christians will have more stringent qualifications on who they marry for good reason. They want someone who is dedicated to their faith in both growing in Jesus and good character. They also want someone who is attractive to them. Such Christians will have a much more difficult time finding someone who is strong in their faith AND simultaneously attractive to them.

Some compromise the wrong way (attraction > faith + character). Some compromise the right way (faith + character > attraction). And some get both… Usually the 8-10s will get both nowadays. The rest will not.

Overall, age and attractiveness are the primary factors that tend to drive male sexuality and hence also marriage. Other factors may include companionship/helpmeet, respect/love (for men and women), wanting to have a family, virginity, and other such things. Age obviously plays a role in attractiveness due to beauty but also in fertility. Worldly things like status and money can be a factor as well.

This is the reason why it is important for women to cultivate their beauty, femininity, and have a mind for marriage at a younger age. It’s a huge leg up in finding suitable candidates that they’re also attracted to. Virginity is more of an “add on bonus” when everything is said and done for most of the population, even serious Christians depending on the circumstance. All things being equal, it is preferable.

Older Christian women who want to marry need to cultivate their beauty and femininity as much as possible as well as a kind, household oriented, and servant hearted demeanor. Age and beauty are not on their side so they may need to compromise in other areas but not faith or character.

Conclusion: Women your physical beauty will get you in the door, and your personality and spirituality will make him want to keep you. While the latter is the most important, you cannot neglect the former if you want to get married.

Conclusion: Men your masculine personality and confidence will get you in the door, and your ability to lead her spiritually will make her want to keep you. While the latter is the most important, you cannot neglect the former if you want to get married.

To go back to to the analogy I used in my first ever post on this blog, attraction matters as it gets your foot in the door. If you can’t get a foot in the door, you likely aren’t going to get married. Women won’t be asked out. Men won’t be accepted for dates or relationships.

Posted in Godly mindset & lifestyle | Tagged | 6 Comments

Make it happen

Scott has a post named June Cleaver might be unmarriagable right now. It’s likely the largest discussion in the past few years about the factors that go into finding a spouse that is suitable for marriage from the perspective of a woman (and also the factors that go into it for men).

Generally speaking, ever since the rise of no fault divorce and the decoupling of “sex” and “marriage” — at least in culture — via fornication and promiscuity, anyone looking for marriage has suffered extensively. There’s numerous reasons about why this has happened. I’m going to try to summarize many of the factors (not an exhaustive list).

  • Divorce and courts — young men see that wives can blow up their marriages for cash and prizes and they get to keep the children. Significantly decreases mens’ incentive to pursue marriage.
  • Sex without marriage / hook up culture — this is not a concern to serious Christians, but the fact that many people say they’re Christians but advocate pre-marital sex gives somewhat the illusion of Christian piety. There’s numerous cases of men and women who want to wait until marriage but are receiving interest from non-Christian and pseudo-Christians who want to “sample” before “marriage.”
  • Men are less masculine — men are less manly contributes to being shy in asking out women and taking risks. Men who aren’t masculine also tend to put responsibilities before roles, which is bad.
  • Women are less feminine and more masculine — this is obviously an influence from culture. In general, men do not want to marry a business partner. They want to marry a woman.
  • Feminism — although feminism is encompassed in all of these points, there are some that are not covered. No, you can’t “have it all.” It’s a lie. The Scripture tells wives to prioritize their God, husband, children, and the home.
  • Life Scripts — This is one of the biggest large impediments. Women are now expected to complete college and get a career before marrying. Men are expected to complete college, have a good paying career and job before marrying. This pushes marriage upwards of late 20s and early 30s+. The marriages coming out of late teens and early 20s are few.
  • Breakdown in communication — flaking and standing up people is extremely common. Women started it, men continued it, almost everyone does it.
  • Obesity — no real comments are needed. It’s pretty much universally unattractive, except to the few people with fat fetishes.
  • Husbands and fathers are held with contempt — this needs no explanation. Surprise, what men want to be husbands and fathers if they are held with contempt?
  • Fear of disappearing sex — no one wants a frigid and sexless marriage, despite the fact that it has become a relatively common occurrence. Women tend to change on a dime about sex once they’re married. Stats indicate about 2/3rds of marriage husband have dominant sex drive and 1/3rd wives do. It can go both ways.

Christian sub-culture. There’s quite a few sources of rot in Christian sub-culture as well as logistical issues. Aided by Neguy’s post here.

  • Discipleship — The Church does not disciple men and push men into leadership positions. This tends to lead to men just hanging around in singleness. Likewise, women are not taught to be women.
  • Feminization in the Church — sappy love songs about Jesus, feelings over Truth, not teaching the hard parts of Scripture (headship, submission, women no authority over man, etc.). Men who come under this structure end up with a feminized world view where they should be “nice” to attract a woman. Nice never attracted anything but emotional predators.
  • Women cliques — if you try to ask someone out or date them it gets around. Nuclear rejections and ruining of reputation are not uncommon. If you date one, you basically can’t date anyone else in a Church. This has led men to not date women in their own Church and look outside of it.
  • Introversion / quietness — like it or not, those who are introverted and/or quiet tend to have worse prospects. Generally, they’re not as good with conversational skills and being bold enough to go talk to people.
  • Indicators of interest — men and especially women in Church think flirting is the devil. No indicators of interest are really shown.
  • “I Kissed Dating Goodbye” influence — both dating and courtship are not Biblical concepts. Who even knows what they are anyway. Christians should stop taking these things so seriously and just get to know each other.
  • Christianizing and making things overly serious — sort of IKDG influence, but a bit different. Whenever you hear so and so is going out with someone, there’s the expectation that they’re going to get married. People ask when you’re going to get married. Can we just calm down and let young men and young women figure out if who they’re seeing is a good fit before asking them when they’re going to have babies?
  • Denominational differences — obviously a factor in shrinking the pool of candidates. Orthodox and Catholic generally won’t marry out. Protestants have the issue of various denominations falling into apostasy.
  • Obesity — sadly, obesity needs a re-mention on beating the obesity dead horse. Especially with Christians who think like this. My first ever post on this blog was about Practical ways to improve your attractiveness and desirability for a Christian spouse. It was removed by Boundless (Focus on the Family’s singles ministry). When you have supposedly Christian organizations ignoring reality well…  you get the point. Lest we not forget that feminine beauty is highly controllable.
  • Donal has a post up that overlaps some — market is awful, geographical issues, demographical issues, Christian parents are not teaching their children roles and responsibilities, young men are less interested in marriage (for many of the reasons above), and too many people are doing too little.
  • Christian conservative delusion — Delusion that America was Christian and that 1950s were ideal. “Traditional” is held up as some sort of standard, even on par with the Bible. After all, “if we could just go back to how it was… oh, but we should definitely keep this feminism stuff too”
  • Patriarchy = abuse delusion — Christians often buy the lies that there was abuse in Patriarchy in the Bible and that Jesus changed that. Also, that there was some sort of equality between Adam and Eve before the fall. Nothing changed from the Beginning to the OT to the NT —  Husbands and fathers still have authority over their wives and children.
  • White knighting sin — Dalrock has covered this extensively on how “womens’ sin is blamed on men.” Especially from the pulpit. This covers anything from abortion, to temper tantrums, to breaking china, and other “wake up calls.” It’s easy to blame men and hard to call out women. God forbid a man not want to get into a relationship if he’s going to get blamed for the sins of his wife.
  • Lack of respect — the Church and wives often hold husbands in contempt (see reasons above) and don’t give respect where it is due: for the position of the husband. Headship demands respect and submission because it’s headship. “Feelings” are held above “Truth.”
  • Culture of family distrust of suitors — The notion that “good fathers” are out to get any of the potential son in laws.

Despite all of these challenges, marriage is still good because God has created it.

1 Timothy 4:But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, 3 men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude; 5 for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

Several solutions have been posited, especially including Church events. Fat chance, really.

You’re pretty much on your own. Make it happen, if you want to be married.

I’ve posted on this many times before, such as the the detailed timeline. I’ve posted before for women too including some of the above in obesity. Tons of practice advise in the categorized lists of posts.

The real issue is the same as you’ll see in marriage. You can’t expect the other person to change. You can only control you. Therefore, if YOU want to be married, YOU have to make every concerted effort to make it happen. This is true for both the man and the woman and the husband and the wife.

Seriouslyserving posted about how she did it.

Regarding “flirting”, I didn’t spend very long in the dating market, but I can tell you what worked to get my husband’s attention…

We had the advantage of living together at a church based student accommodation, so we saw each other a lot naturally.

But I had heard that he was into computers and a bit of a tech whizz, so I asked if he would mind helping me install my new printer. He was happy to do so, and this provided the opportunity to then talk a bit more one on one. He then saw my guitar sitting there and asked if I could play something for him, which I did so.

He had no idea until after we’d already been dating for a while that the printer and the guitar “lying around” were strategic moves, but they were effective ways of letting him know I was interested, whilst still being able to claim plausible deniability (as someone mentioned earlier) if nothing came of it.

I’ve posted an example of a “Real life Ruth” with the Part 1 and Part 2 followup. There are ways to make it happen. Women have the great ability to leverage social networks and set up situations that are conducive to success for them.

My story

With all of that said I’ll share my story, since I’m now engaged.

About 2.5 years ago, during an overnight Church event, I was talking with a group of people — men and women — about marriage. We talked about what we were looking for and how it was hard to find. I did this on the off chance that anyone there was something that I was looking for in a prospective wife. None of them met my criteria, and I don’t think I met theirs.

I always follow up on my leads regardless of whether they bear fruit or not. One of my habits was asking family, church members, friends, and others if they spot a woman that they think would be a good match for me to let me know. This is one of the things I listed in the detailed timeline and how-to guide. One of the women said they knew of a girl who went to a similar program at that Church last year, and another of the women knew her name so they gave it to me. I kept that in the back of my mind, as I was exploring other potential leads at the moment.

About 4-5 months later, I added her on Facebook and struck up a conversation as we were interested in mutual things. Honestly, I didn’t expect much of it because she lived on the west coast and I lived on the east coast. I had “dealt” with long distance before and was not a fan already, but I figured why not one last time since she seemed to be what I was looking for. Note that I did my homework first before I added her: checked out her FB and other social media to see if there were any red flags.

We struck it up immediately since we had a lot of things in common. This is where being an wise conversationalist comes in. Learning how to lead a conversation is useful to draw out certain responses. I actually went back through our conversations with her a year or so later, and I showed her where I ‘led’ her to certain topics that I wanted to talk about and/or tease her about. It was pretty fun to go back over what we had talked about early on and see how our relationship had changed as we got to know each other better.

As God would have it, I had actually planned before I messaged her to go on a missions trip prior to me talking with her. Our launch point before leaving was the same city that she lived in. Divine providence? You decide. In any case, I went to meet her and her family, and we decided to try the long distance thing a few weeks later. And the rest is history.

Actually, the rest is not history, haha. Just tried to fool you. Basically, like any relationship you have to continue to work at it and grow. I introduced to her several Biblical concepts that I like to go by in relationships. You can find more about that in my 5 step process to maturity in relationships. Indeed, even when a woman knows what she is supposed to do, learning how to do it is still difficult, even with a strong father figure in her life.

I still had to teach her what it means to respect me. I had to tell her when she was disrespecting me. As the [future] head of the relationship, I had to take the reigns and help teach her more about the Scriptures and what God’s roles and responsibilities for us were from. Some of it was easier. Some of it was harder. This is also vice versa with some of her needs on what it means to love her (cherish and nourish her).

The key is building a pattern of good behavior, patience, and lack of anger in conflict. If people understand that conflict is not something to run from, it is much easier to discuss the difficult aspects of the relationship especially when you disagree. This is the major issue that most relationships run into in conflict. If there are patterns of bad behavior, it’s very difficult to break the negative behavioral cycles. It can only be done through the grace of God and consistently walking by the Spirit.

In any case, once you have begun and consistently applied a pattern of good works within a relationship by walking with the Spirit it becomes much easier. Although there are still bumps in the road here and there, the foundation of trust has already been built. It is important to continue nurturing this foundation of trust and grow it as you grow together. The bond of the Scriptural roles and responsibilities is that foundation, as the way a husband and wife are to act toward each other is fulfilled.

It took a while to meet the rest of her family in another part of the state. Unfortunately, a series of miscommunications made it so that her parents were somewhat negatively predisposed to me in the beginning because of a lot of second hand information. Things have been slowly getting better over time as we’ve talked about it. There have definitely been various conflicts at the hands of what I would call an overprotective father-in-law who seemingly wants my relationship to look like his before I had to permission to marry his daughter. I’ve discussed that with my mentor (and any young men should try to find one!), and it helps to have another ear of a wise married man about things like that.

Overall, for me the whole way is that I’ve had to make things happen on my own. My parents didn’t give me any advice or talk to me about relationships while growing up. I definitely learn some of what to do from them, and I’ve learn some of what not to do from them. I’ve learned most of what I should be doing from the Scriptures themselves.

I glean wise advise from other married and unmarried men as necessary. Different perspectives are good, even if they’re giving you some white knight-ized version as there is usually some sort of Truth within what they’re saying (even if it’s to do the opposite). Thankfully, I’ve been at a Church that dwells on what God says about marriage straight up, and the men I’ve discussed it with all have solid experience with it to learn from.

Conclusion

If you want to be married, the odds are against you.

  • You must be extremely proactive about developing your communication and social skills.
  • Study the Scriptures about relationships and marriage. Pray, meditate, and fast on the Word.
  • Be at peace with the season you are in.
  • Look for every opportunity and seize them.
  • Go into everything with eyes wide open. Don’t ignore red or yellow flags. Build your foundation on the Rock.
  • Use the wise advice from blogs such as Dalrock, Scott’s, Donal’s, Cane’s, mine, and so on.
  • It never hurts to ask for help from those who are further along in the journey. You don’t always have to take it, but the perspective of men who have studied the Scriptures and experienced a lot in relationships is useful in most cases. This is community, especially if your real life situation with family, friends, and Church isn’t that great.

May God bless you in your search or marriage!

Posted in Godly mindset & lifestyle | Tagged | 37 Comments

Engagement and marriage

Engagement and marriage are two separately defined concepts in the Scripture which are most interesting to study.

“Dates” and “Dating” and “Courtship” don’t exist. They’re made up. It’s not that these concepts are “bad” in any meaning of the word, but they can become too much of a focus making mountains of nothing, not even molehills. They can become an idol.

The “engagement” of the Church with Jesus is symbolized with the sealing of the Holy Spirit:

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey my commandments. 16 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another helper who will be with you forever. 17 That helper is the Spirit of Truth. The world cannot accept him, because it doesn’t see or know him. You know him, because he lives with you and will be in you.

2 Corinthians 1:21 God establishes us, together with you, in a relationship with Christ. He has also anointed us. 22 In addition, he has put his seal of ownership on us and has given us the Spirit as his guarantee.

Ephesians 1:13 In [q]Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also [r]believed, you were sealed in [s]Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is [t]given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:25 Therefore, laying aside falsehood, speak truth each one of you with his neighbor, for we are members of one another. 26 Be angry, and yet do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, 27 and do not give the devil [s]an opportunity. 28 He who steals must steal no longer; but rather he must labor, performing with his own hands what is good, so that he will have something to share with [t]one who has need. 29 Let no [u]unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification [v]according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. 30 Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, [w]by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. 31 Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. 32 Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven [x]you.

In our culture, a “ring” signifies engagement. Engagement rings have a long history going back to the Greeks.

Although the ancient Egyptians are sometimes credited with having invented the engagement ring,[1] and the ancient Greeks with having adopted the tradition,[2] the history of the engagement ring can only be reliably traced as far back as ancient Rome.[3][4][5] In many countries, engagement rings are placed on the ring finger of the left hand. At one time it was believed that this finger contained a vein (the vena amoris) that led to the heart. This idea was popularized by Henry Swinburne in A treatise of Spousals, or Matrimonial Contracts (1686).[6] The story seems to have its origin in the ancient Roman book Attic Nights by Aulus Gellius quoting Apion’s Aegyptiacorum, where the alleged vein was originally a nervus (a word that can be translated either as “nerve” or “sinew”).[7]

Indeed, throughout history beyond that point, rings were used to show wealthy, publicly advertise that a woman was taken, custom, privilege, and so on.

To Christians, pagan traditions means nothing. 1 Corinthians 8 with food sacrificed to idols and all. We are not defiled by pagan traditions. However, it can be used as a sign as Christians to signal that they are engaged, much like Jesus gives the Church the Holy Spirit. The key is not making it into an idol and having the heart in the right place to honor God.

The marriage of the lamb to his bride happens in Revelation 19 when Christ returns.

Revelation 19:7 Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His [b]bride has made herself ready.” 8 It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the [c]saints.

9 Then he *said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he *said to me, “These are true words of God.” 10 Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he *said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

Prior to this, Jesus gives the Church a warning to be faithful to him, especially in Revelation 2 and 3, and also in the gospels with parables and stories about the ten virgins and sheep and the goats.

In general, those who have “true” faith and have received the Holy Spirit will talk the talk and walk the talk through acts of righteousness, which will be the bride’s marriage clothing in her marriage to Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:3 As I urged you [a]upon my departure for Macedonia, [b]remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, 4 nor to [c]pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering [d]the administration of God which is by faith. 5 But the goal of our [e]instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. 6 For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, 7 wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.

The period from engagement to marriage is not fulfilled with nothing.

Our transformation from lost to saved to disciple is about engaging the Church to its gifts such as evangelism, teaching, and so on, along with baptism, communion, and good works in preparation for marriage for the Church to be married.

Likewise, so too a man and woman who are engaged should prepared themselves for marriage:

  • A woman must prepare herself to be a wife: to respect and obey her future husband (Eph 5, 1 Pet 3, Col 3, Tit 2), to cultivate chaste and respectful behavior and a gentle and quiet spirit (1 Pet 3), and to learn to love (philos) their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored (Tit 2).
  • A man must prepare himself to be a husband: headship (Eph 5), a sacrificial love for her sanctification, not feelings — 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27 that He might present to Himself the church [q]in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing (Eph 5), to treat her as he treats himself x3 (Eph 5), to nourish and cherish (Eph 5), not be embittered toward her (Col 3), and to live with her in an understanding way as someone who is weaker, and show her honor as a co-heir in Christ (1 Pet 3).

We honor God by obeying His commands, even when they are not “popular” or not “lauded” or even “despised” by the world. God’s Word does not change with the times. It is eternal, and it shows God’s design for marriage. Marriage is more fulfilling and even more successful when we follow God’s commands for it.

My reflection back on the Scriptures about engagement and marriage again is that much more fulfilling now that I am engaged to my fiancée. It is also a stark reminder that the journey is never over, either for the wife or husband, to grow more like Christ. It is only in Christ that I have full confidence knowing that the road I walk is difficult, especially in our blatantly blasphemous culture.

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