My wife was talking to the worship leader the other day about his relationship. Apparently, the story goes that when he became the new worship leader for the Church it was only a month later that he started dating his girlfriend. He admitted that he was scoping out the women once he got there.
Then my wife follows up with the classic line. To paraphrase her: “When we (women) would go to Church services or Church conferences we would look at the worship leaders hand (to see if there was a ring) to see if he was single and if he was then potentially get to know him.”
Obviously, this statement does not need confirmation, but it is still nice to hear what women are actually thinking about their attraction as many men don’t even know this fact.
The positions such as pastor, worship leader, bible study leader, and such naturally have some of the attractive traits of PSALM – power, status. athleticism, looks, money. Typical, power and status within the Church itself that is attractive to women. Additionally, there are some masculine traits present such as confidence playing in front of a lot of people, leadership within the worship team itself, excellence/competence, and others. In the case of the worship leader add on musical talent — men get 3x more interest with guitars in their profile — and it’s clear why women are attracted to a man in that position.
For those who haven’t been around the blog that long, attraction is explained thoroughly in A Christian understanding of attraction, and the role it plays in marriage Part 3.
It’s also more often the case where the latter positions are mostly with single men. Most pastors are already married as women grab them when they’re on track to be a pastor. Worship leader or Bible study leader are typically a bit more hit or miss if they’re married or not, so those are typically the ones most women will flock toward if there’s no single pastor availability.
Of course, every man who wants to be married or who is married should be cultivating their masculine traits at the very least (confidence, leadership, courage, assertiveness, etc.) in order to be an effective Christian in evangelism and discple making which also help with leading a wife as well.
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So women are attracted to fake power. The kind that can be used to emotionally manipulate people but not directly do anything.
@ jorgen
Nah, you seem to have a warped view of attraction.
Women are attracted to dominion per Genesis 1-3. Dominion comes in many forms. The ability to lead others. Mastery over a sport. Mastery over a musical instrument. Success in business. Social savviness and charisma. Authority and status in the Church is one of them.
PSALM and masculinity are general proxies for dominion and mastery.
Not to mention leadership.
Women in general are not attracted to Godliness. Godliness, holiness, this feminine conduct men show during praise and worship of “lifting holy hands” and effusive emoting while singing worship songs, are not sexually attractive to women. Reading the bible, praying, praising, evangelizing, and other outward manifestations in men of worship and submission to God, are not sexually attractive traits. I’ve heard women say they are sexually attracted to such men. They’re not. Women like those men as friends, orbiters, and “nice guys”. Women like to have those men around because they can use and exploit those men.
Women like these traits in men who are already conventionally sexually attractive because they have PSALM in some form or fashion. But women don’t want to admit that what they’re actually sexually attracted to is these attractive men’s attractive traits – power, status, athleticism, looks, and (having the power to earn) money. Christian women especially won’t admit this because they think it makes them look “worldly” or “shallow” or “fleshy”. They haven’t sufficiently “submitted to God” or “crucified their flesh”. Nonsense. They’re just women being women.
It’s why all the shaming in the world still hasn’t changed men – we like what we like. We are attracted to height weight proportionate, young, pretty, feminine looking women with long naturally colored hair and shapely toned bodies who dress like women. No amount of shaming is going to make us attracted to, or invest our time or money into, homely, overweight, shorthaired, deliberately unattractive, socially awkward, faux masculine, unfeminine women breathing fire at us, making demands of us, and shaming us because we won’t date them.
It’s surprising to me that what I wrote up there needs to be said, but it does – over and over again.
Deti,
It’s not that it needs to be repeated. It’s that knowing these facts about women put men in a bind. If what attracts women is true, and it makes no difference if the woman is Christian or secular, then men are tasked with a choice: get women or go to Heaven. Because you will never reach Heaven being the type of man women are attracted to. As you say, they are NOT attracted to Godliness. There have been those who have wondered if women even have souls, or whether it’s possible for them to be saved. The way modern women act, it’s not an outrageous question. Increasingly, there’s less and less *spiritual* benefit to pursuing a wife, or becoming a man worthy of marriage *in a woman’s eyes*. It’s a very bitter pill to swallow, and one we’d rather not think too much about.
Would be fair to say that women looking for PSALM is hypergamy in action?
@ Bardelys the Magnificent
Huh? This makes no sense.
Understanding that things like masculine traits, leadership, charisma, success, and so on are what women are attracted to are not mutually exclusive with following God.
@ Overton Window Escapee
Yes. The definition of hypergamy is that women want to marry up (hence, hyper- being more/greater and -gamy meaning marriage). PSALM is the type of traits they are attracted to and look to marry up for.
Hypergamy is a good thing as God created it that way. The bad thing is unrestrained hypergamy. That leads to women prioritizing PSALM at all costs over character and other things. For instance, the M of PSALM. All women are looking for provision of some sort, but it’s the unrestrained lust for money and you get the bad things like gold diggers.
A similar analogy for men would be those who pursue beauty at all costs ignoring character, red flags, and other things.
What men and women are attracted to is good as God created it. However, when it becomes an idol so to speak, that’s when there are big issues.
Perhaps I wasn’t very clear. The kind of masculinity that modern women are attracted to is not the same masculinity that gets us to Heaven. I would say they’re direct opposites. For one example, we’re supposed to have humility in being poor (if that’s our lot in life), make the best of our situation and still help others. However, this practically guarantees you’ll never be a serious candidate for marriage. We could go down the list. Both God and women want us to be masculine, but only for their purposes. Both are very jealous if their request gets ignored. You cannot serve two masters, so modern man has a choice: God or women. Modern women no longer give the option to have both.
Just to clarify: WOMEN ARE DEFILERS! The Bible tells us so. (Revelations 14:4, and Etc.)
“Women in general are not attracted to Godliness.”
Of course not! That would reinforce virtue and validate Godliness, and Women naturally do the opposite. A wise man 😉 once said: “By nature women will affirm the cad, defend the guilty, and gravitate to men with vices, against their own and everybody’s best interest.”
The defiling nature of Eve is still the hardwired nature of every single one of her daughters. Don’t try to make a liar out of God and worship the creature instead of her Creator. The reason we need a manosphere is because society is lost and hearkening to and idolatrously worshipping women above God. Life is a test! A test of faith. And for men, women are a challenge to be mastered. The defiler is not to be hearkened unto, but to be ruled over well, to be shepherded, to be scrubbed with the word of God to remove all her spots and wrinkles, and all her other blemishes.
We are not saved by manliness, but by faith, even women can be saved that way, by demonstrating their faith through “childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.” (1 Timothy 2:15) However God, and women also, want men to behave as images of our masculine God, exercising dominion over all this worldly realm. We men were commanded to populate this earth and to “subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.” (including women)
BtM,
You’re still not making sense. Why would you have to do anything ungodly to improve your lot in life? I grew up poor. I’m not poor anymore. If anything, the work ethic, diligence, prudence, and temperance that come from godliness increase wealth. Ever heard of the Protestant Work Ethic?
Let’s look at the LAMPS model.
Looks: if you have them, then God blessed you with them. How is that ungodly?
Athleticism: What’s ungodly about maintaining the Temple of the Holy Spirit?
Money: Follow the principles in the Book of Proverbs, and you’re almost guaranteed to increase your wealth. What’s ungodly about following the Book of Proverbs?
Power: What’s ungodly about leading people?
Status: If you lead, increase your wealth, work out, and dress well, your status will improve. What’s ungodly about that?
ALL women, Christian or not, want Chad. We’ve been shown repeatedly that nothing less than Chad will do. Newsflash: Chad is not a Christian. He does not pretend to be; he doesn’t have to, because he knows it doesn’t matter. There’s literally no incentive for him to become one. In fact, if he starts behaving like one, he ceases being Chad. So how do you compete with, or become, Chad and still remain a Christian, knowing that being one puts you at a disadvantage? You don’t. That’s my point. In the modern climate, you either toss your soul aside and become Chad, or risk being an incel. Or marry Chad’s leftovers, many of which are sitting next to you on Sunday morning.
I guess where you think I’m not making sense is this: I don’t see a way to get yourself into Chad-tier, top 10% levels of PSALM without shaking hands with the Devil. Outliers exist, but for the average guy starting position, I just don’t see it happening. If it were as simple as “stay in shape, make some money the Proverbs way and lead something”, we wouldn’t be here. Most of us are capable of that. That’s not the bar. Chad is the bar. He doesn’t live like us, and the women in our churches LOVE it. Hence my hypothesis: you can either get women or get to Heaven, but you can’t do both. Not in our modern climate.
Are you doing that?
@ AvatarBardelys the Magnificent
Brother, you’re wrong.
Masculinity (the way God created it) across various cultures is a collection of traits such as confidence, independence, leadership, assertiveness, strength, courage, etc. Women are attracted to these traits as well as PSALM as I’ve gone over in the attractiveness post.
Masculinity can be expressed in a good or evil manner. For instance, one can use them for evil (e.g. charismatic jerk McDouchebag) or good (pastor, worship leader, etc.).
If you’re athletic in the Church and have a pretty good physique and other masculine traits, women will start being more interested in you and you can become a ‘”Chad” in that circle.
Why do you care what women in the world are doing? You are not going to date or marry them?
Before I got married I was getting some IOIs from women across various races, religions, and ethnicities. If any man builds masculinity and PSALMs it’s universal that a greater percentage of women will be attracted to you over time. How many generally depends on your starting point, but over time more and more will.
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Women will be attracted to fake power, because they are also attracted to what is popular/sought out. So if you buy a bunch of media companies and run ads and shows about midgets are super sexy, you’ll probably gas light many into thinking midgets are in.
Because I have determined that there aren’t enough wrenches in this thread already, I’ll simply note that the hypergamous model has worked out well for divorce attorneys.
It’s almost like the ancients knew what they were doing with arranged marriages.
Also, as per success, scripture doesn’t speak well of those who are wealthy and big wigs in this world.
And yet, many of the heroes of the faith were “wealthy, and big wigs in this world”. It’s almost as though the point is how you acquire, and use your wealth, and your attitude towards your wealth, not the wealth itself.
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