Christian masculinity, the nice guy, and neediness

To follow up on my previous post on Christian masculinity and confidence, I want to provide Christian men with some insight into why being a “nice guy” is unattractive. I am going to follow this up with a post on practical advice on what peace, peitho/pistis, and parrhesia look when interacting with Christian women in the future.

The larger point of this blog is not merely understanding conceptually what Christian masculinity looks like but to put it in action.

James 1 (NASB)

22 But prove yourselves doers of the word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks at his [x]natural face in a mirror; 24 for once he has looked at himself and gone away, [y]he has immediately forgotten what kind of person he was. 25 But one who looks intently at the perfect law, the law of liberty, and abides by it, not having become a forgetful hearer but [z]an effectual doer, this man will be blessed in [aa]what he does.

The adjective “natural” in front of face is the word

γένεσις — genesis — ghen’-es-is — G1078

From the same as G1074; nativity; figuratively nature: – generation, nature (-ral).

The nature of your heart as a Christian man is reflected in who you are and what you do. This is the mindset from which you need to consider your interactions with women.


Women have almost the innate ability to instinctively analyze posture and motivation because they are created by God to be creatures of feeling. They look at you and see what you do and they getting feelings from it.

When you change your behavior in an attempt to make a woman like you because you are interested in her then you are being a fake — a fraud, not genuine, a charlatan, a sham. She will instinctively read this in your posture and actions. You are pedastalizing her because you believe she is special or requires some special handling.

You should treat her the same way you would treat her as when you interact with your family and friends. That is the real you. The one who is able to joke around with, flirt, make playful fun of, and interact with naturally in your relationships with others.

If she doesn’t like the “real you” and the personality that comes with it then that’s OK. Not everyone in this world is going to like you. Remember, you’re on your search for the one woman who will marry you. Not 10 or even 20 women that are interested in you.

Women will never respect a man caters to her whims, and no one likes liars and fakers. Much less liars and fakers who call themselves Christians.

When you can understand this, then you can finally understand the disgust at women have for betas. Betas put on a fake personality to try to “win the girl” and are lying to themselves and others.

This is what Christian men need to learn — don’t change your behaviors for a woman. If you’re going to change your behaviors, then take off the old and put on the new. Do it for God as a new creation in Christ. Never change yourself for a woman.

Women know if you’re saying and doing things because you are trying to impress them. They’ll think it will be amusing and will accept your help. Often with a smile. They’ll thank you profusely. But they won’t be attracted to you. If you’re going to help women do it because you are willing to serve them as a brother in Christ. Women can detect the difference — the neediness of approval and validation that you seek from her — because it will show in your body language. Women are more in tune with subtle social cuing.

Additionally, because you are pedalstalizing her she will innately feel pressured to perform up to those expectations of the pedastal that you have put her on. This is why women typically despise being the leader in a relationship — there is the expectation of responsibility that comes with it.

Always examine your heart. Your underlying motivations. Remember, God looks at your heart. Don’t do things because they will be able to please men or women. Do things because you will please God. Your mission is to be a masculine Christian man for God. Women will naturally follow from this.

edit: As Donal pointed out, if you are a “genuinely nice guy” and have no illusions of pedastalization or don’t change your behavior around women then you need to grow because you are feminine and unmanly. See this more recent post if that is your issue.

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18 Responses to Christian masculinity, the nice guy, and neediness

  1. donalgraeme says:

    Slight disagreement here. A guy can be a genuinely nice guy, not have it be an illusion at all, and still be unattractive to women. That was me. I was nice to everyone, not just women. Nice was my “natural” demeanor.

    The reason why nice is unattractive is because it is unmanly. When you break apart “nice” into its base components, you realize that it is essentially a compilation of feminine traits, not masculine ones. Women were created to be drawn to masculinity, so it shouldn’t be surprising that “nice” turns them off. Nice in a man is unhealthy, it is a disorder.

  2. @ Donal

    Good point. That’s what the most recent post is about. I’ll edit in a link.

    https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2014/01/17/christian-nice-guys-are-stunted-in-growth/

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  4. femininebutnotfeminist says:

    I would like to point out that there are 2 different kinds of nice that should be distinguished when talking about “nice guys”…

    1) There is nice as in “loving, kind, the opposite of mean and grumpy”
    2) And nice as in “passive, pushover, spineless”

    ALL women want #1, ZERO women want #2.

    Also, a comment I made on another post fits well here…
    https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2014/01/17/christian-nice-guys-are-stunted-in-growth/#comment-64

  5. donalgraeme says:

    @ FBNF

    There is another, better name for men in group #1. “Good men.” No need to use nice at all. Its origin is found in an insult, and should only be considered and used as such.

    Christian men should be good, not nice.

  6. Looking Glass says:

    “Nice” is an insult. Always take it that way.

  7. femininebutnotfeminist says:

    @ Donal and LG,

    Sorry, that wasn’t the right choice of words to use to make my point it seems, as I didn’t intend for definition #1 to be an insult at all. It was based on an online dictionary’s definition of nice as “pleasant, good-natured, kind” which I think matches your definition of “good” Donal (please correct me if I’m wrong about that). Though I’m not quite sure if “good” is the right word to use either, as a lot of guys (though by no means all of them) with the #1 traits also match #2, which is not being a “good man”. This is what I was getting at in the comment I made that I linked to above. Essentially, a “good man” has to be loving and kind, but also strong of character and not a pushover type. Being a kind and loving man who is also a spineless pushover is almost (or equally?) as “bad” as being a jerk with good leadership/don’t-back-down skills, because both are only halfway to having the qualities of being a “good man”, or rather a “Godly masculine man”. I really hope this made more sense because I didn’t/don’t mean to insult anybody…

  8. femininebutnotfeminist says:

    I keep forgetting that my definition of nice is so very different than a man’s, or the manosphere’s definition of it. Typically when I think of someone as being a nice guy, I’m thinking of them being kind to me and easy for me to get along with, is always willing to help someone that he sees in need, doesn’t leave me walking on eggshells around him for fear of his temper, that sort of thing. This includes guys that have a strong character and all that. I need to be more careful of how I use that word around here it seems…

  9. Looking Glass says:

    “Nice” has, in a number of contexts, a positive connotation.

    However, when applied to a Man, it’s a back-side insult. “Nice”, in that understanding, is a way of saying he is “safe”. “Safe” isn’t masculine, when a Woman is talking about it.

    And I wasn’t taking it as an insult, but it’s functionally used as such. There’s a reason “Nice guys finish Last”.

  10. Looking Glass says:

    Maybe the better way to understand it is that Women use it as a passive-aggressive compliment. That’s the functionality in our society, whether anyone admits it or not. It used to be generic enough of a compliment to allow Women to get by with saying nothing while not losing Face. But, well, the game was lost on the utility of the word.

  11. donalgraeme says:

    @ FBNF

    For Christians, perhaps we should use upright or righteous instead of good. I’m sure that Deep Strength can find us a word in Greek that conveys all that we need. (wink wink, nudge nudge)

  12. My first inclination is to go with virtue / moral excellence from this post analysis of 2 Peter 1:

    https://deepstrength.wordpress.com/2014/01/17/the-foundations-of-christian-masculinity/

    The virtue / moral excellence root word is that of manliness.

    G703 — ἀρέτη — aretē — ar-et’-ay
    From the same as G730; properly manliness (valor), that is, excellence (intrinsic or attributed): – praise, virtue.

  13. donalgraeme says:

    So instead of being “nice”, a Christian man should be “virtuous”? Works for me.

  14. femininebutnotfeminist says:

    Works for me too 🙂

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  18. infowarrior1 says:

    I will concur. “Virtuous” the word has as its basis “Vir” or Man.
    Its used in the following ways:

    In regards to the Iliad the way Homer describes Achilles is an example of Arete (187). Arête is associated with the goodness and prowess of a warrior (187). Debra Hawhee points out that the norms and practices of Athenian virtuosity “operate within the politics of reputation, whose normative poles are honor and shame” (187). This means Arête functions as an external phenomenon depending on outside reception and acknowledgement for its instantiation (188). Dying in battle or securing a victory in the Olympic Games were considered agathos (good) and, hence, deserving of timê (honor). So, not only is Achilles a brave and brilliant warrior but also, from the outset, he is destined to die in battle at Troy with the utmost glory—a guarantor of Arête. [9]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arete

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